Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Welcome to Game and Going Deeper, a podcast by the Gaiman's brotherhood that showcases raw and real conversations about personal development, mental health and sexuality from an unapologetically gay perspective. I am your host, Matt Lansadel and joining me today is my co host, Michael DiIorio.
Welcome, brother.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: All right, today we are talking about radical honesty. We're having some real talk about radical honesty. So I want to just introduce the concept of radical honesty and what it is. So it is a communication and self awareness practice that encourages complete honesty in the present moment. So this is with yourself, being honest with yourself, radically honest with yourself. But this is also a lot about being radically honest with others.
I want to give you guys a breakdown of what this means. So the core idea of radical honesty is it is about saying what is actually happening inside you at any given moment. So thoughts, feelings and sensations, just communicating from this place. It's about owning your direct experience rather than telling stories.
Being transparent instead of people, ple. People pleasing, managing others or hiding ourselves. So this is like mask is coming off and I'm just going to share with you what's coming up for me. So what's alive for me in this moment.
Um, so it's not brutal honesty. Okay. Or being mean. This isn't about using authenticity as a mask for being mean. This is about how we can do this with. With tact and with also being aware of how our. Well taking responsibility for our impact.
[00:01:37] Speaker A: Right.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: What I say has impact on people, especially if I'm a person of influence, a leader. So I want to be mindful. The way that I'm being honest and authentic is actually going to be tactful.
So this might look like instead of saying, you know, or instead of trying to say the right thing, it's gonna. Or saying what you think someone wants to hear. It's going to be about shifting to speaking your truth. What is. What is alive for me? Like I said, that's usually my sentence stem when I'm. When I'm being radically honest is, you know, what's alive for me right now is I'm noticing that whatever I'm feeling angry from what you just said or I'm right and you just go there, you go to that place that most of us are dancing around with. We just go right into the. The heart of the matter.
Some of the core principles of this are going to be to tell the truth about what you feel and think in the moment. Express resentments quickly instead of holding on to them.
Express appreciation often because we're not just being radically honest about the things that are upsetting us, we're being radically honest about our feelings. Right. So if I'm feeling appreciative of you, or if I'm feeling like I have loving feelings for you, I'm going to be radically honest about that. Right. So we can use radical honesty in a beautiful way too.
We stopped pretending to be more together than we are.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: Right.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: That's a, that's a common one that a lot of gay men we carry and we differentiate between facts, feelings and stories. So really actually get getting radically honest with yourself and saying is this a story I'm telling myself? Am I making assumptions here or is this actually a fact of what just happened?
These sorts of things. And then a lot of it is about owning our reactions. So other just don't make us feel things. We are responding to what somebody has said to us. So we have to really own, own this. And then I just want to share a few reasons why people do practice this. Because you might be thinking well geez, why would I want to do that? That sounds so scary and so revealing. But when we start to practice radical honesty or authentic relating, we are going to experience less anxiety because we're not hiding.
Right. And when we start to reveal what we're feeling, then we start to get connection what we're feeling and, and then we can start to alleviate it. This can lead to deeper intimacy. So because we're, we're making ourselves more.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Known.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: More integrity and alignment in our relationships, fewer resentments, stronger boundaries and just more present moment awareness, being present with whatever is happening for us. So this will be good for people who, if you're an overthinker, right, like in relationships, you overthink things, you become suspicious or whatever. Radical honesty is going to be really good to help with that if you're a people pleaser, if you fear abandonment, if you get stuck in rumination or you're somebody that tends to hide their needs out of fear of whatever judgment or rejection, these sorts of things. So yeah, so I wanted to paint that picture because I think it is. It's really important to, to just frame what, what I mean when I say radically honest.
But I want to know from you, Michael, just to kind of kick us off, what can you think of a time when you were radically honest and it was difficult to have that conversation.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Oh my gosh, so many.
But I've used this example so many times already recently, I don't want to use it again.
Let me think here.
Yeah, I mean in A lot of my relationships, I think it's. I think it's incumbent on the relationship, the success, the health of a relationship, to practice everything you just said. I mean, it works in all relationships, but definitely for sure, for me, I always want to be the person who is radically honest with my partner, even in the hard things. So that might be if I'm feeling jealous or insecure.
You know, saying that and opening up and saying, hey, this. This situation or whatever is happening is bringing up a lot of jealousy within me, and I want to share that with you. That, to me, feels very vulnerable and scary.
Yeah, right.
Especially because I'm the person who's like it. I'm not jealous. I'm great until. Until I'm not. And then also, what's this feeling I'm having right now? This is you.
Oh, that's jealousy. So those. Those are some. And then the example that I was thinking that I've used a lot recently was, you know, telling someone that you love them and then, like, putting your heart on the line for it to be rejected.
That has been another time, but I. I had to do that just because it felt worse holding onto it. Eventually.
[00:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I'm hearing well and similar. Actually, that was going to be. The other topic that I was possibly going to bring into today's conversation was navigating jealousy in relationships. So it's funny that you brought that up. Yeah, I think, yeah. What else would you say would be, like, hard things for you to talk about? What. What. What do you. What is it hard for you to be radically honest about?
[00:06:47] Speaker A: In terms of my feelings as jealousy? Like, any time I'm feeling jealous. Insecurity, oddly enough, not so much. I think I talk about it so often that it doesn't even faze me anymore.
But jealousy for sure still is something. And I think, yeah, love. Like when I actually have feelings and I'm not sure if the other person feels the same way.
That's really hard. What other feelings?
I guess love in the sense when I don't know for sure if it's reciprocated that way. Otherwise, I'm very loving and I'm very okay expressing that with people that I feel safe with and that I know love me. Yeah.
But, yeah, jealousy.
Some insecurity, I guess. Like, we had that episode recently about body.
What was the one that we just said about body? Has it been released yet? Maybe it hasn't been released yet.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Body, Perfection.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. All right.
I don't know if you guys heard that one yet. But anyway, there's. There's an episode about body perfection, but that, that was a vulnerable conversation for me. Talk about. To talk about that.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah, same. Yeah.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Yeah. How about for you?
[00:07:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I was nervous before that episode.
Yeah, I'm. This is very alive for me. This, this because I was just navigating a relationship that lasted for about a month. And you know, as people know, I've been very open about this and in on this podcast that relationships tend to throw me for a loop. They're. They challenge me in so many ways.
But something that's hard for me to be radically honest about is when I'm feeling scared in the relationship. And this was a relationship where I was able to actually talk about that and like, the person was able to hold space for me and we were able to talk about why I was scared. And it really came down to a lot of trust issues.
I have a lot of trust issues with bringing my fear to somebody because I think most of my life, my fear wasn't held and contained. It was met with more fear. And it made me. Right.
More. More afraid.
So bringing fear into. Into conversation is tough, but I've. I had to practice radical honesty because I'm like, the other outcome is going to be that it implodes and it starts to seep into the relationship in these unconscious ways. And then the part my partner is left being like, wait a min. Why are you suddenly. Why is the texting frequency shifted? Why is this happened? Why? Right. And that's what mostly happens. We start to just like when we feel scared, I think we start to ghost in, you know, the slow fade. That's another episode that we've done, right? We do the slow fade because the of fear. And then we start to notice these behaviors and then it brings up fear in us. Right? And this can all be mitigated with radical honesty and just saying, I'm scared. I'm scared we're moving too fast. I'm scared that I'm not enough for you. I'm scared that you're gonna betray me. All the things that come up in relationships that are normal for human beings to experience, if we can practice radical honesty, then we actually foster connection. And if we don't practice radical honesty and we repress or conceal what we're feeling, then we create disconnection, right? And we leave people wondering, why did they ghost me? Why did they slow fade me? Why did all these things happen? And then what ends up happening is we often internalize that stuff and then it just creates more stuff. For us to be scared of in our next relationship. So I just really want to highlight how radical honesty can be such a beautiful tool to healing intimacy, connection, these sorts of things.
[00:10:15] Speaker A: My experience has had benefits, but not those ones.
The one that I was talking about where I, I was honest about my feelings, having developed strong feelings for this person I was dating, and I was honest about them because I don't want to hold on to them anymore, that actually ended up having the opposite effect. Less intimacy, less connection with him. However, However, I will say this. The benefit was that I got to be true to me. And while I may have lost that, you know, whatever was blossoming there, obviously it was never meant to be. But you know, I was very true to myself. And looking back at it, even though I was in a lot of pain for a while, it felt really good to get that off my chest and to let my heart be free and to speak my truth. And that was a beautiful act of self trust and self respect, I think, because otherwise I was in this thing that I just had all these feelings that I wanted to give and this person just doesn't have the capacity to handle the love that I wanted to shower all over him. He just doesn't have the capacity and that. So, you know, it didn't, it didn't work out so well. So there was no connection or intimacy. But yeah, there's still, there still are benefits to it. And I think truth, truth and honesty is a value that I like to live by no matter what.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I like that. And we can never control what we say, how it's going to land on somebody else. And I find when you practice radical honesty, you'll notice levels of our own emotional maturity, but others emotional maturity too, because this relationship that I was in, it was contained and it was held. There was an emotional maturity in the sense that he didn't become defensive over my fears. My fears were mine. I owned them as mine. Right. So when we're radically honest, we have to own and take responsibility for what's ours. And, but sometimes if we don't do that or if we do, the person that's receiving it can, can still become defensive, right? Like, well, what do you mean you're scared? What did I do? I didn't, I didn't do that. Right. And we can, they can start to become defensive. They're making your truth mean something about them. Whereas we can still share our truth and it can still be our truth. And there can be relational impact and there can be relational influence for sure, but I think the relationship's gonna be better served anyway because if you can't be radically honest with someone and they become explosive or defensive, that's just a sign that the relationship might not have the maturity that it needs in order to sustain long term depth and growth. Right?
[00:12:46] Speaker A: Yeah.
There is a time and a place, though. That's one thing that I've learned.
You know, I, I have not historically had a hard time expressing my feelings. Maybe it's the Italian in me, but there is a time and place. And that was what I was not good at. I was, I would let things out. Not in the right places, times, environments. When the person wasn't ready, when I didn't have permission to like, hey, can we have a conversation? Which now I've learned, I've learned you have to, at least for me, have to get the consent to have the container. Are you ready for this? Here's what I want to talk about. Are you in a space, are you in an energy for it? Versus here's what I have to say to you because I want to say it like, yes, that radical honesty has to be within a container that, that is more likely to enable the outcome that you want.
[00:13:34] Speaker B: Such a good point. Yeah. Such a good point.
Yeah. You're definitely not pausing sex to have a conversation about, you know, oh, I'm really scared and I'm having all these feelings. Right. So timing is everything. And I think timing is everything in all contexts of communication because you want to read the room, you want to, you know, give the person a chance to, you know. But I, what I will say is not, don't, don't text your partner in the morning and say, we need to talk tonight.
Just leave it at that. Okay. Provide context. I'd love to practice authentic relating tonight. I'm feeling like there's some things I want to share and I really want to enrich our relationship. Can we talk tonight? Right. Versus like just leaving them with a cliffhanger. Because I know for me, my ruminative brain would go monkey wild with, with that one all day. I'd be like, what do they want to talk about? They're going to break up with me. Right. These sorts of things. So it's, it's really about finding a way that you can, you can share yourself.
And like you said in a, in a context that's going to, it'll be more likely to be received.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: Have you had any, you know, negative experiences with radical honesty where you did everything right? You know, textbook. Right. But the outcome was not, maybe Met with what you were expecting or what you wanted.
[00:14:51] Speaker B: I have. I could write a bible of things. Like, I have so many. I've been practicing authentic relating, which is pretty much radical. Honestly, they're very similar for seven years now. And that's just. That's like the modality I've been practicing. But prior to that, I was very authentic in speaking my truth. So, yeah, like in dating, it's such a big thing. Like, I tend to.
People feel like I'm off putting because I just speak my truth or if I'm on a date, I'll ask questions. And I'm a therapist for a living. I literally listen to people's intense things all day long and their vulnerabilities. So I have to rein myself back a little bit when I'm dating or when I'm meeting people that don't have that capacity or want to have that capacity.
Yeah, definitely. There's been, there's been instances where, where people feel maybe intimidated or put off or something like that. But at the end of the day, like, I, I just know that about myself and I know that I want to attract people who can match that. And I love it when people can match that. There's nothing juicier and yummier when than somebody that's like, they see my vulnerability and my authenticity and they're like, yeah, I, you know, like, hit me. Like, let's, let's go shot for shot here with, you know, being able to just reveal ourselves and, and be open with each other about how we're experiencing each other. And it can.
Yeah, I feel like I'm an. I'm an intimacy addict. I love intimacy, and not just romantic. Like, I love intimacy of all forms with friends, with my clients, with, you know, like, there's so many forms of intimacy that I'm just addicted to.
[00:16:29] Speaker A: I would never think of you as off putting, or let's say the word, intimidating.
I want to go be a fly in the wall on one of your dates and see what's going on, because I would never use those words to describe you. Yeah. Either of them.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I think this has shifted for me because I'm no longer attracting avoidant men. And avoidant men have such low capacity for emotionality. And that's what's happening when you're being radically honest. You're revealing your emotions, essentially you're revealing your thoughts. And thoughts contain energy for emotion, emotionality.
So now that I'm no longer attracting avoidant men. Well, I shouldn't say I'm not attracting Them, I'm no longer tolerating being like in relationship with them. So it's less and less. I find the last, the last handful of guys that I've been connecting with romantically have been either anxious or secure. They have, they have capacity for emotionality. Right. So yeah, so I don't take it personally because I, I know the, I know the context of the people that are off put by me and it's like there's just a lack of capacity there. Right.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: In my opinion or the listeners. Because I think at the beginning you had talked about like, you know, there are many benefits to this, but you're right, it is being honest. Being authentic is very scary. Brings about, brings up all of our old wounds because we have lots of baggage and we have lots of trauma around authenticity and honesty. Especially as gay by queer folks.
You know, we learn to hide. There's safety in hiding, there's danger in being honest.
So what would be like your, your, your sales pitch if we were going to sell radical honesty? Like what's the main benefit to folks considering we don't know what the outcome is going to be with the other person? They could handle it as we've learned any which way.
[00:18:23] Speaker B: Yeah.
So in my experience, it gives people permission to be honest as well.
So in most, 99% of my encounters when I practice radical honesty, the other person is like, like their ego might be threatened, but their soul is like, ah, thank God, like I can finally, you know, reveal myself too. Because all of us are holding back. All of us have shadows, all of us have biases, all of us have this crap that we carry. And, and you know, a lot of it is storytelling. We tell ourselves all these stories and when we can start to reveal those things, then we give other people permission to do the same. Right. If you really want to learn about somebody, you really want to build intimacy with them, then practice this, practice showing up. Because you know, otherwise what ends up happening is you get two guarded people coming together and they just tell stories to each other and they just keep it on the surface. Right. You need one person that's going to step in and say, you know what, I want something a little deeper. And when you do that, you get deeper back. Like nine times out of 10, 9.9 times out of 10, I've really never opened myself up. And the other person has just been like, you know, like they just stay at that level. Right. They either hit the road or they match me. Right. And, and if they hit the road, it's like it's nothing to do with me. Like, this person's just revealing their own capacity. That's it.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: I completely agree with everything you said. I don't repeat it because you said it so well. Another one, though, that I would add is they. Even if they don't feel the same way or it doesn't go so well, eventually when the dust settles, if it doesn't go well, there is a respect.
So I talked about, like, a respect for myself. Like, I would be very proud of myself. Like, damn, girl. Like, you did a good job. Like, yeah. Putting that out there. And respect from their end as well. They're like, yeah. I think it's rare for men to practice radical honesty.
And so when people can do it and navigate those tricky waters, other people will see that and respect you for it and see the courage that it took. And we'll be like, wow, that was. That was pretty amazing. So there's. There's another benefit there. Self respect and respect of others.
[00:20:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I love that.
I just. In. In this, this last relationship that I was navigating it, I was able to cry in front of this guy and it was like, so beautiful because he was able to hold that and he was like. And then he also got emotional at points in the relationship with me too. Like, we just had this really beautiful bond and we were able to just be ourselves fully with. With one another and. And express emotionality. So again, radical honesty leads us to those more tender parts within us, and I think those are the parts that need love. And if we have relationship fears, which is everybody, everyone listening. Hi. You have a relationship fear because no one's immune to them.
We. It's. It's in through radical honesty that we can reveal those and we can start to get those held and, like, loved. And that's what we need.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:22] Speaker B: That's why we fall in love with our partners and, and stuff, is because we are there to experience love. And not just the parts of us that we deem lovable, but the parts of us that we deem unlovable, those are also going to get loved and in a. In a. In an unconditionally loving relationship as well. So. And that requires us to have some sort of capacity to reveal those things. And radical honesty is a vehicle that we can use to reveal those things.
[00:21:47] Speaker A: And the main ingredient is courage, because you can't do any of that without courage. And courage feels scary. Courage feels. Feels like fear. And you. You might like when you hear the word courage, you're like, yeah, courage but like anyone who's actually practiced courage or done something courageous, think, think to the last time you did something that was courageous.
Your body felt like fear if you went in. I was like, oh, my palms are sweaty. I'm shaking a bit. My breaths are shallow. Like, I'm, I'm panicking a little bit. Like, yeah, that's courage. And so I think that's why a lot of people don't do it, because it, it does. It is fear. It's feeling the fear and doing it anyway. That's basically what courage is. But everything Matt just said there, if you want that connection, that level of depth, it. It's going to require courage and vulnerability. All the things that we love talking about here on the podcast.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
One question for you is, what are things in your life that you need to practice radical honesty?
Like, what are some things that, like, you know, you've said, like, relationships when you're feeling jealous, these sorts of things. What are some other things that you would need to use this modality as, like, a way to just.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: I need to say that I was just journaling about this. This is like, super raw because I was just journaling about this two days ago with myself. I think I, I there. I'm in a phase in my life.
I haven't quite distilled all this yet, so I don't know if I'm ready to share it. But I was thinking here. I mean, I've been traveling alone for a while, a few weeks now, and got a good time. It's, it's been a really good time to get to know myself and really look at myself in the mirror and take stock, which I do when I go on these big, long solo trips every year.
And a few things came up and I was like, huh, this is something I really need to be honest with myself with, like, let's say, habits or behaviors or, or things that maybe have snuck in and I have justified them, but they are not serving me. Yeah. If that makes any sense. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I need some radical honesty with myself. And that's, that's, that's, that's key because if you can't do it with you, then it's going to be harder to do with others.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. I like that you, that you turn that on yourself, because I actually intended the question the other way.
[00:24:10] Speaker A: And.
[00:24:11] Speaker B: But it's, it made me think too, like, there's such an element of challenging our. Well, we can't actually be radically honest with other. Until we're radically Honest with self, because we all have so many blind spots. And radical honesty is about pausing, checking in with our emotions, and getting clear. So jealousy is like, I feel inadequate. I'm scared of losing you. Right. So when we are radically honest with ourselves, it's like, okay, I'm going to identify what that fear is that's underneath my jealousy, which is that I'm not good enough or that I'm going to lose you because I'm not good enough. And then how can I practice revealing that? Right. As opposed to revealing the anger that might be sitting above it.
So it's like getting honest with ourselves. And for me, that looks like challenging my own ego because my ego is like you, like you. How dare you do that to me. Blah, blah, blah, like whenever I'm jealous. But really it's actually like, no, there's something that's really tender that's underlying this. And when that tenderness gets met with acceptance and love, that's when it heals. That's how. That's when the parts underneath the jealousy can actually learn to receive the love. So we can feel like we are enough. But if we just become defensive and blaming, then we just create defensiveness in the other person and it perpetuates the wound of, I'm not good enough.
I'm going to lose you. Right? So I do think radical honesty creates a safe place for us to be able to reveal the parts of us that need love. I can't emphasize that enough because that's really been such the main thing for me with, with radical honesty. It dispels fear, and then it allows me to be loved in the tender parts that are like, contained within that.
[00:25:47] Speaker A: Fear, you know, and those reacting, those, those. What did you just say? Blaming? And what was the other one? Criticizing, Blaming and defensiveness and all that anger. Yeah, yeah, that. It, it's such a shame because you just need to go below that to get to the core source.
When, when someone's doing that, they're reacting to the core pain, but they're not getting to the pain by sticking to the reaction. They have to go to, like, what's causing that. Whether it's shame or fear or something, something's always below it. And that honesty, that honesty is exactly what allows you to access it. And once you can access that level that then you're. Then you're cooking with gas, as they say, then you're at the. Okay, we've reached the core issue here. Now we can actually solve a problem. Whereas when are at that above layer, you're not. You're not. It's just, you're not solving the problem. You're just going to keep repeating yourself over and over and over again.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:39] Speaker B: You stay in cycles, relational cycles of destruction.
The bottom layer for 99 of people that I've worked with in my practice is with gay men especially, is shame. It's. It's under fear, it's even under inadequacy. It's the bottom layer for most people. And we, most people have so much shame in revealing that we're scared or that we're jealous or that we're all these things that, that we will never reveal that. So if we can learn how to reveal and be radically honest about those things, it leads us to that bottom layer, which is shame. And we can only heal shame when we can name it and when we can learn how to have it within our window of tolerance. Right. Our nervous system has the capacity to process it, then that way we start to develop resilience to it. So, but it does, it all starts with naming it. If you can't name the shame because you're not able to bring it into your awareness, right, then it's going to be very, very hard to heal toxic shame. So radical honesty can be a beautiful, beautiful way to start to connect with the things that sit above the shame. Which once you start connecting with those, it allows you to go deeper and get to that shame part too.
[00:27:44] Speaker A: 100%.
Call out to our healing. Your shame course.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
Well, this has been a slice. Is there anything else percolating before we wrap up that you'd like to share?
[00:27:55] Speaker A: No, it's been great. Thank you for, thank you for the topic. This was a fun one. Yeah, fun, fun, fun for like, for people like me. I'm sure for other people, they'd probably be devastated and terrified, but I like this kind of stuff. And if it was me, you know, on those dates with you, Matt, I, I would be the one going back and forth with you. It wouldn't scare me.
[00:28:13] Speaker B: Oh, I love that. Well, that's why we're, that's why we're business partners and friends, is because we have that. It's nice being in flow with you. I like this inflow session that we were able to have and I want to invite the, the YouTube viewers to drop in the comments.
What are you. What, what came up for you in this conversation? What might be difficult for you in sharing and being radically honest about? What's that, what's that content for you? What's that thing that you know, you find. Is it setting boundaries? Is it revealing fears? Is it revealing jealousy? What are the things that make it really hard, hard for you to share that you might want to start to practice radical honesty with? I'd love to hear that.
And, yeah, until next time. Much love, everyone.
