I Wish I Wasn’t Gay

[00:00:03] Speaker A: Welcome to gay Men going deeper, a podcast by the gay men's brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. We are your hosts. Matt Lansital is a counselor and facilitator specializing in healing and empowerment. Reno Johnston is a spiritual life, love and business coach. And I am Michael Diorrio, a life and wellness coach specializing in sexuality, relationships and self confidence. We each have our own private practice, and in this podcast we're sharing all of our best stuff. It is national coming out day, and while the title of today's episode, I wish I wasn't gay, may seem contradictory, I do think it's important that we recognize that this is a common sentiment for a lot of guys who grapple with their sexuality. And coming out at the end of the day, today's episode is really about the path to self acceptance. So the questions we're going to be unpacking are how did you come to accept your sexuality? And what words of encouragement would you offer someone who wishes they were something different than they are? And for you, our viewer and listener, in the spirit of national coming out day, I want to encourage you to send this episode to someone who needs it, perhaps someone that you know who is struggling with their identity in coming out, or perhaps a family member or friend or loved one who wants to better support someone who is also coming to terms with their sexuality. All right, we will be continuing the discussion on this topic on the last Thursday of the month in the gay Men's Brotherhood sharing circles. We also have our connection circles on the second Thursday of the month, which are smaller, more intimate breakout rooms where you can discuss the topics of the podcast with other members of the community. To join us in these spaces, please go to gay Men's brotherhood.com on our event section to register and make sure you're on our email list so we can send you all the details you need to join us. This podcast and YouTube channel are listener and viewer supported, so if you enjoy what we're creating, you can support us by making a donation to the show using the link in the show notes. You could also subscribe to get early access to episodes on Apple Podcasts. All of your support helps us to continue making content and supporting our community, so we thank you so much in advance. And if you're looking to accelerate your personal development journey, please check out our coaching collection. It includes two courses, healing your shame and building better relationships, plus over 45 premium personal development coaching videos on topics such as body positivity, relationships, self confidence and community. Head over to gaming going deeper.com for more info. And if you're new here, welcome to the channel. While you're here, please subscribe to the channel on YouTube. We release new episodes every Thursday, so make sure you click on that Bell icon to get notified. And if you're listening to us on a podcast platform, please make sure you subscribe. Leave review and a five star rating. This helps us get into the ears of people who need us. All right, I wish I wasn't gay. That's the name of today's episode. And for the intro today, I want to share with you all one of the discussion questions from my shamelessly gay men's group. And I want the audience, I'm going to say this question. I want the audience to respond. So if you're watching us on YouTube, go into the comment section and respond to what you would have say to this question. We do this in week three of the group, and I must say, this question, I've done this a few times now, sparks such a deep and engaging and juicy and sometimes heated discussion. Okay, here it is. If a pill existed that could change your sexual orientation, would you take it? Why or why not? Okay, so again, I invite viewers and listeners to share your response wherever you're watching us. YouTube, Instagram, TikTok. Now, I'm always fascinated by the different perspectives and opinions that this question generates and of course, many, many sub questions. And a whole discussion is ensued and it surprises me how many people say yes to this question. And by the way, if you do like these kinds of questions, please do join our men's groups, head over to the website to learn more. The link is in the show notes. Personally, my answer to this question would have been a hell yes for a long time. In fact, that magic pill would have been a dream come true when I was in my teens and twenties even. But if you ask me now, the answer is a resounding hell no. But why is that? That's what we're talking about today. Why is that? How do you go from I wish I wasn't gay to I love this part of myself? What is that journey about? That's what we're doing here today. Okay, so for me, it has been a journey. It wasn't. It wasn't a light switch for me, maybe for some people, it was. For me it was. I hate this. [00:04:33] Speaker B: Why? [00:04:33] Speaker A: Why did God do this to me? To. Okay, I guess I can live with this. To you know what? This isn't so bad. To overall, I kind of like this to now my thought is I've hit the fucking jackpot. I love being gay. I wouldn't give it up for anything. And so the work I do is all about helping people get to the point where they feel good about who they are, right? And there are a lot of factors that go into this, and I recognize that. And we're going to share some of our own journeys with you guys today in hopes that it'll inspire you. Which leads us to our very first question, which is, how did you come to accept your sexuality? Let's start today with Matt. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Beautiful intro, and I feel the same way as you. Yeah, I'm at that point and I have been for a while. Like, my sexuality, I think, has been a thing I've been pretty, I'd say pretty comfortable with for maybe the last eight years, like, to the point where I would never take that pill. Before that, I was struggling a lot. I had a lot of addiction issues. It was just such a hard thing to navigate. Like, what do you, where do you even start? You know what I mean? That was my thing. Like, where do I, do I go to a gay bar alone? I don't have any gay friends. Do I tell people? It was so, so confusing and scary and all the things and. Yeah, I remember when I was maybe like eleven or something, I remember watching like, sally Jesse Raphael or something and seeing there was an episode about gay people and it was about like, AIDS and it was like all this, like, scary shit, you know? And I was like, oh, my God, like, this is who I am. And I had the moment of like, realizing, like, you know, that I was this thing that society deems it as. Prior to me seeing that, it was like, I'm just, something is happening. I don't know what it is, but don't say anything. Like, I, you know, it was like this, it was a lot of confusion, but that episode of Sally Jesse Raphael really was like, it scared me and it was like, oh, my God, like, I'm going to end up dying of AIDS and I'm going to. Right. So was all this fear around it. And I remember wishing, like, praying truly, like I was not a religious kid. I was like, praying the side of my bed, like, please, I want to wake up and be straight. Like, I don't want to. And I would have taken that pill in a heartbeat. But now, absolutely not. Like, I'm at that other side of things where I feel very happy about being gay. There's. Sure there's things that I struggle with, with the gay world, but you could ask a straight man, and he's going to say the same thing. I struggle with understanding the way women work and blah, blah, blah. We can't bypass the struggles of life in certain aspects. For me, coming to acceptance was a long road, and it had lots of ups and downs. It had lots of laughter and tears and all the things. It was a journey for me. I remember I first came out when I was 18 to my friend Vanessa, and I told her I was bi, and I'm like, I'm going to dip a toe in and see how it feels. And she was like, okay, sure, great. It wasn't a big deal. So I was like, okay. And then eventually I came out to my dad and my mom and different people, and for me, that's really what. How helped me, you know, accept my sexuality. It was coming out over and over and over again, and I still have to come out all the time. It's just part of it, right? Like, but now it's just like, it's fun. Like, I love seeing the look on people's faces and I, like, I just play around with it and, you know, I'll, like, let people, like, I'll say my partner if I'm in a relationship and let them wonder, right? Like, I just have fun with it now. It's like, not, like, it's not a thing. But for me, there was a lot of, I had to go through conviction and anger. That was a big stage for me of, like, being like, fuck you, world. Like, I'm going to be gay. And I had to go through this anger and I had to project and I had to be mad at society and mad at religion. And that was how I came into conviction around my truth. And that was the birthplace of a lot of stuff for me. It was the birthplace of my work. You know, inspired to be authentic is my brand. So it's about being inspired to be who you are, right? And. And then when I started doing that, like, I started attracting people, because when I started owning who I was, I started attracting the people that I needed. And then they loved me and accepted me, and my parents loved me and accepted me. So it was through coming out and, like, the mirror of people holding me through, it helped tremendously, you know, like, my mom and dad saying, like, I love you, it doesn't make a difference to me. Anything like that was a big part of what helped me, you know, come into myself. And then in my twenties, like, I remember I went to my first gay bar probably when I was, like, 19, something like that. Maybe a little bit, maybe it was 18, and just, like, seeing other gay people and being around other gay people, like, that was a huge thing for me because the shame told me I was the only one. I'm alone. I'm disgusting. I'm all these things. But then when I started to see other gay people, it was like, okay, there's a community of people that I can connect with. So, yeah, that was a huge, huge piece of it for me. It was. It's. And really, if I frame this up, it was a journey of healing shame. That's what it was. I carried so much shame around being gay or being feminine or being anything that people would, you know, tease people and they would drop the word gay all the time to, you know, be a description of something that was horrible or, you know, feminine or whatever. So, yeah, I had to reconcile that. I had to really meet the parts of myself that were. That felt like I was wrong or disgusting or broken or defective and, yeah, so it was a journey. It was definitely a journey, for sure. And addiction. Addiction going through my addiction was a big piece of it as well. And my addiction brought me into therapy and counseling and group work and everything, and that was a big part of my healing. So my addiction was actually a huge blessing. It brought me into getting help for the things that were the roots to my addiction, which was my shame and my trauma and these sorts of things. Yeah. [00:10:41] Speaker A: How old were you, Matt, when. If you could guess, when it was more of a. I wish this wasn't this way to, like, you know what? I'm actually good now. Like, at what age was that first time? [00:10:54] Speaker B: Uh, like, true, true. I'm good now. Like, I know. I think the ego convinced me that I was good, and there was a lot of, like, denial and a lot of unprocessed shame and trauma that I still had to work with. I would say probably around the age of 30. [00:11:07] Speaker A: So how many years was that? What's that gap? [00:11:09] Speaker B: So I. Well, I knew I was gay at five, so I came out at 18, and then from 18 to 30. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a long time. [00:11:19] Speaker B: It is a long time, yeah. And it shapes who we are in such a big way, you know, like, yeah. [00:11:24] Speaker A: And there are listeners and viewers out there now who are in that time, in their own timeline. That's where they are now. I'm really hoping that they're listening to this and seeing the three of us and giving them some inspiration to authentic. To come out, do whatever you have to do to. Because that pill is going to one day, hopefully you're not going to want it. You're not even going to think about it. [00:11:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And keeping in mind, too, the generation that I grew up in there, we didn't have podcasts or YouTube channels or anything where you could see this and have exposure to this. So I do think that's why we're seeing younger generations accepting their gayness. Wake wicker. And not staying in the closet as long is because they have allyship and they can see other gay people through media and these sorts of things. So I think it's definitely a lot better. I was a bridge generation. Like, my uncle was gay and he was a generation above me. And that was when there was, like, so much shame and hatred towards gay people. My generation is a bridge between the technology, right. And then when technology started to happen, when I was probably about 1415, that's when the Internet came out and all these sorts of things. And that was, you know, so, yeah, it's interesting generationally, it will be different. [00:12:38] Speaker A: For everybody, I think, too, and culturally as well, right? Yeah, different depending on where you're listening to us in the world. [00:12:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Reno, how about you? [00:12:50] Speaker C: This question was an interesting one. Again, because I accepted my sexuality, everyone else just had to catch up. Like, I accepted it. It wasn't a problem for me, you know, like, I don't feel like I had a problem with. With my sexuality. I don't think I had a problem with being gay. I don't think I had a problem with, like, who I was and how I navigated the world and expressed myself. But what I do notice is that it seemed like there were some people who did. And so, you know, that that was the point at which I just started masking some of those things or pulling them back. But again, even try as I may, it's like, that was so hard. So I was just doing it on the side, you know? I remember living in rural Manitoba and, like, living a double life because I was just like, well, this is what I'm up to and I'm going to do it whether you all like it or not. I'll just do it on the down low, you know? So, yeah, I feel like there and, like, I'm open to being incorrect about this, but I think that there was always an acceptance. But the shame came. The shame came when I started noticing that this was an issue for the world, for other people. And then I was like, oh, okay, cool, I'll dial it back, I guess. Or like, like I said, do it on the down low. Um, there are a few things that I will say, though. Uh, one is, I didn't want to take a pill. I wanted to be a woman. Um, and that was an interesting experience. Mom and I went shopping for, uh, Halloween costumes, and I remember having this conversation with her, and I'm so, like. I'm so, like, moved in a way, as I'm remembering this moment, because we're walking through the costume store for Halloween costumes, and I remember saying to my mom in the most innocent way, mom, I think I was supposed to be a girl. And my mom was like, why do you say that, Rena? And I said, well, I don't know. I guess, like, we're looking for Halloween costumes, and I really just like all the girls costumes. And when I play video games, I always pick the girl to fight with, you know? And I just like. And some of my favorite characters in tv and film are female. So I was like. And I draw women all the time, so, like, maybe I want to just be a woman. And the thought in my mind as well was that, a, I would enjoy being in a female body more. Bde, I would be able to be attracted to men, and nobody would have an issue with it, and c, I would be able to enjoy these sort of femme things that I was into and would be more free to just express myself and live as it occurred to me. And so I thought that was the answer. And I thought that come 18, I would get a really good job, save up thousands, and then go and get a sex change so that I could become a woman, and then I could be with men and just live this life that I really wanted to live. Well, thank God I very quickly realized I didn't have to, you know, because I was. I was learning things. And also, I think what. What really helped me along the way was being exposed to diversity. Like, my mom had lesbian friends, my mom had gay friends, you know, like, and I'm. I'm actually pretty sure I was also exposed to trans folk, definitely two spirited folk, because we were connected to indigenous communities. So, you know, it. Like, I saw that stuff. I was exposed to it, so it wasn't so shocking to me. And I think that probably helped a lot. Yeah. So I would say that that's my answer to that question. How do they come to accept it? And I guess just to kind of bridge the gap, like, once I started. I like what you said earlier, Matt, about exposure, because once I started spending time in, you know, queer spaces, gay spaces, like, everything in between, it just changed everything because I found a place where it wasn't. I was like, oh, thank God. Okay. I found somewhere that this isn't an issue, you know? And so that was wonderful and so liberating, because I could just let her rip. And then. And then the same thing happened as well. Like, if we're speaking specifically to not so much my demeanor or the way I move and be in the world outside of sexuality, because, you know, there are stereotypes associated with being gay. But if we're talking specifically about sexuality, I'm gonna. I'm gonna say, like, you know, connecting with other men, gay men who are. Who own their sexuality, and then also being in environments, like, let's say, the body electric school. Like, I can definitely say those spaces and experiences took my level of expression, confidence, and ownership and reclamation to a whole new level, you know? But I was always, like. I always felt comfortable with my sexuality. And as soon as I got into those spaces, it felt like, oh, my God, I can finally, like, we're all on the same page. I can loosen up and let her up, you know? Yeah. [00:18:52] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That would be my answer to the question as well. So great segue. Yeah. I would say environment. And that's when it really shifted for me. So I came out at 19. I knew I was gay. Like, I guess whatever puberty age is, 1213. Came out at 19 in universities. Still didn't love it. But I was like, all right, I guess this is it. I kind of begrudgingly accepted it, but it wasn't until I moved to Toronto, where I live now, and specifically in the village where I still live now. And that, for me, was, like, eye opener. So, for sure, that environment, that exposure that you have both talked about, that sense of community, being in it, immersing myself in it, seeing so many people loving on each other, laughing, living their best lives, being sexy, being great, being successful, having fun, doing what they want to do, having the life I didn't think I could have for whatever reason, probably because before that, I grew up in a very suburban, sheltered, catholic, italian environment. So, again, no exposure. Nothing like that. So I was like, what? What do I do? Where do I go? No role models, nothing. And at the time, similar to what you were saying, Matt, there wasn't much out there. Besides, all I knew about being gay was AIDS. And, you know, who was it? Boy George, who? I had no connection to that, so there wasn't much out there for me. But then, yes, once I moved here, that was it. And that kind of gave me permission. It allowed me to see what it could be. And I'm like, yes, this. This is what I want. And so, yes, I moved downtown as soon as I possibly could and kind of became that. And that gave me a sense of belonging, pride, validation, that feeling of I'm not alone. For all this time, I thought I was alone, which is why I wanted to not be this way, because I felt so alone. And then I'm like, oh, wait a minute. This is great. We have our own little community here. Of course there's challenges with it. We've talked about that enough times on this podcast. But overall, it was a beautiful feeling of, like, wow, these people are amazing. And I love that I'm part of it. And then the other piece that we just mentioned before we started recording is sex. Once I started having sex and relationships with men, I was like, this is fucking great. This is it. Things like touching and dancing and making out in sex and relationships and relating with other men in a way that was intimate and sexual and fun. Like, that is what that is within me. Like, that's what makes me gay is like, I have this incredible attraction to men in the male form and the male body and all that. And then once I started doing more and more of that and embracing it, truly embracing that part of me, I was like, this is fucking great. I'm not going anywhere. [00:21:42] Speaker B: Amen. How old were you when you first had, like, physical contact with a guydeh? Not in, like, the young energy, like, truly, like, whether it's penetrative or. You know what I mean? Because I think little boys can do that sort of stuff. But when. How old were you when you first had your first sexual interaction? [00:22:03] Speaker A: 18. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Yeah, same, yeah. With a guy? [00:22:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was great. Like, explosion. And all he did is like, touch my hand, and we were sitting on a bed, and I was like, oh, my God, it was really good. And we did more after that, by the way. It was just that touching of the hand. [00:22:20] Speaker B: Touched your hand and you just lost a nut. [00:22:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:22:25] Speaker B: What about you, Reno? How old were you? [00:22:30] Speaker C: I was probably somewhere around 16. [00:22:34] Speaker B: Okay. [00:22:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 16. It was, it was. There were a couple times before that, but I'm gonna be honest. Like, the time I'm talking about, I was 16, and it was a threesome. And I think I've told this story before, but, yeah, yeah, you went in. [00:23:02] Speaker B: With a bang, so 16. [00:23:05] Speaker C: I did go, I did go in with. What's that? I. [00:23:08] Speaker A: So 16 and 18. And what was Matt, what was your age? [00:23:11] Speaker B: I was 18. [00:23:12] Speaker A: Yeah, 18, yeah, yeah, relatively young. A lot. A lot of guys. It's a lot later. I think we're all three relatively young, at least for our generation. Yeah. All right, so for the people out there who are listening to us, I wanted a chance to offer them some encouragement. So what words of encouragement would you offer to someone who wishes they were something different than they are? [00:23:41] Speaker B: Yeah, this is a tough one. I have. I have so much compassion for this because I just know it all too well. I've had big things like this, you know, being sensitive, being an empath, being demisexual, being gay. Like, it's just been, like, one thing after the other in my life where I felt different. And I haven't wanted to be these things at certain points, and now they've become my gifts. But I've had so much resistance and rejection of myself because of this. And I just. So I just. My heart, like, literally, I. Well, this is my purpose now. Like, I literally have made a life out of helping people through this because I just know how. How hard it is and even just the suicidality that can come with it. Like, I know a lot of people that when they have big parts of who they are that they don't like or they hate these parts of themselves, it creates suicidal ideation and not wanting to be in your own body and all the things. So I just want to say that it's. I have so much compassion, and I think the biggest thing is, like, there are tons of us homos just waiting to embrace you and love you and, like, welcome you to the community. If you're somebody that's, like, sitting on the outside and you happen to listen to this every week, but you're not out. You don't have any gay friends, and you've been closeted your whole life. Like, you know, come to one of our circles and. And just have your camera off and just watch. Just, you know, hear other. Other gay people speak, you know? Like, that's the thing that I want to say, is, like, expose yourself. Bring yourself to us because we're here for you. I speak for all the big hearted, compassionate people in our community that are waiting to just love you and bring you in. So that's one of them. And then focus on being human again. We have so many ideologies and self concepts and all this crap that we buy into, and it's like, if you think about when we were born, we're just human and we haven't bought into all this crap and all these stories, and we're not inundated with programs from society. So connect with your humanness. Just do human things and, like, hold your hand on your heart and, like, feel that you're human and that, you know, all the stories that you're telling or that society tells us about being gay, like, it's just stories, you know what I mean? And that we have so much more that comes with being human and the gifts that come with being human, you know, that would be another one. Um, and again, I kind of wrote this in, like, if somebody's struggling with, like, any aspect of themself, like, you know, not just being gay, but, like, the world is made up of 8 billion unique bodies, minds, and souls, and try to look at things that you appreciate about yourself. Like, we're all different. Like, there's not one other person on this planet has the same fingerprint as me. Like, how is that even possible? That is so cool, right? So, like, just focus on the uniqueness of you and, like, you know, we don't have to be, like, straight people. We don't have to be, you know, like, porn stars. We don't have to be, like, anything. Like, just let ourselves be who we are and celebrate your unique flavor that you bring. And I find the more that I evolve on my spiritual path, I appreciate the unique flavors about people. I actually don't appreciate people trying to be like everybody else or people fucking like porn stars. It's such a turn off, right? These sorts of things. So when people start to evolve beyond these programs, I think that's when people. We start to appreciate the people who are uniquely themself. You know, I think that's. That's a big one. Um, and then I wrote down, meditate and feel yourself. Don't just think yourself. That's the beauty of embodiment or meditation or these sorts of things. You feel the truth and the essence of who you are. And we. We get a refuge from the stories and the tapes that we're playing in our mind, and that's where the programs live. So really just try and do something where you can get out of the mind and, like, into just feeling who you are. And, like, that could be emotionally, it. It can be sensationally, whatever that is. But try and move away from the mind, because the mind is likely the part of us that's telling us that it's not okay to be who we are. And then I just wrote, you will find your way with it in your own time and in your own way. Like, it's just. It's so unique to every person. Like, you know, even when I'm doing, like, coaching with people, helping them through their coming out journey, it's like, it's so different for them than it was for me. And, like, just own that, you know, you're going to find your way. It will come, it'll happen, but it'll happen in your own time and in your own way and to just surround yourself with people that can love you on, on that journey. Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:05] Speaker A: Very well said. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Thank you. [00:28:09] Speaker A: Reno, what words of encouragement do you have? [00:28:13] Speaker C: So, my first one's a little bit cheeky, but it's fun. So start with. Start with Lady Gaga's the fame and then just work your way through her entire discography. And if you're pressed for time, go straight to born this way and listen to that album from start to finish, like, and just, yeah, find time and space and just listen. Because, I mean, bless that woman and all her queerness and weirdness and allyship. I love her. Yeah, that's answer one. And then I think, yeah, there are a couple other things I would say. Another one is find and create spaces to let your freak flag fly and where you're loved. I feel like I was really blessed to, I guess, to have the inclination to do that. And also, it happened to be there, too. My grandmother, especially, like, I've said this before, probably on the podcast, but she was my sanctuary. Like, I have a picture. I have a picture of grandma and I right here, there's little Reno and grandma. It sits on my altar behind my desk here because I just love her. She's like, oh, my God. And she was my sanctuary. And so my wish for every person is that they have someone like that and a space like that in their lives, because that was a place where I could just be me completely, completely. And it was amazing. And no shame. No shame. And if you don't have people around you who are available to create that space, I would just say, find it. When I was saying that, I had this vision of some, like, young person, like, running off to the, you know, a nearby forest or, like, you know, some hidden spot where they could just, like, be with themselves, you know, and it just, like, feel your feelings, say, you know, say the things out loud, like, scream in rage at God or the sky or the moon or whatever, you know, you're mad at, but just, like, find a space for you to be you and to just let it out, you know? And like I said earlier, music that, that makes you feel like you're not alone, you know? I feel like that's such a saving grace for so many people. Just having music, you know, that speaks to your soul. I love music for that reason. The other thing, too, is, like, know that their shit is not about you. You know? Like, it's not about you. They're projecting. That's one thing I see so clearly now is they don't know how to deal with difference yet. They're operating at a level of consciousness that I guess doesn't allow them the capacity to welcome you in. And that's more about them than it is about you. And I know that that might be hard to grasp or reconcile with, but, you know, as time has gone on, I've come to see, like, my dad struggled with me because my dad struggled with parts of himself, you know? And it was beautiful to see this man start to open up and reveal things that I was shocked to learn about him, you know, that he would have been an actor had he nothing played basketball or gone into social work. I was like, really? You? Stoic and hard and all would have acted. But it's amazing. And that's the thing. We just. We don't know. And then I guess the last thing I would say is, I'll direct this to the gay men who, like, are already out and being who they are, and we're already doing this work, but it's just like, own your uniqueness. Express it. Be represented, be visible, be you. And also consider how your being creates an opening for people and inspires other people and maybe try to be an easy space for people to want to, like, come toward. I have nieces and nephews and little ones around me all the time. And one of the things I'm so great at is just being my, like, silly, queer, like self around them. And I see the way they kind of look with these curious eyes, and, you know, and I think because they see me being me, they're like, oh, I can be me, too. And a couple of them have come out already and, like, way younger than I was when I did, so I'm like, okay, something's working. You know, they feel safe. So may we be that for those little ones, you know? Yeah. [00:33:42] Speaker A: You guys are both so inspiring. I love all of that. And, yes, music for me, too, Reno, very, very much. Yeah, all of that. All of that's great. Very inspiring. Yeah. There's a few things I want to say now that you guys have spoken here. First of all, to the person who wishes there were something different than they are, it's okay to wish you were different. It's been part of my journey, too. It still is. Maybe not just the gay thing, right? But just in other ways. Wishing you were different, you know, I wish I was more outgoing. I wish I was more extroverted. I wish I was more courageous. I wish I was smarter. I wish I was more eloquent. But this is who I am. So it's okay to have. Have parts of yourself that you don't like. You can still love your whole self fully. That's really important. Okay? You can have parts of yourself you don't like. You can still love yourself. And you're. For those of you who are struggling with sexuality specifically, it is just one part of who you are, not your entire identity, right? You get to decide how much of that you want to take on and how much of it is. It's so fascinating meeting, you know, queer people. For some people, it's like an afterthought. Like, oh, yeah, I just happen to be gay. And then for other people, it's their entire identity. And it's beautiful either way, as long as it's aligned with. With who you are and who you want to be. Um, you know, we're all still discovering ourselves, I think at least I am. And all people I talk to have, not yet. I don't know anyone who's like, yep, I figured it out completely. Um, it's. It's a journey. So be kind, be patient. Um, like Matt and Reno have both said, I'll reiterate, surround yourself with people who love you. Surround yourself with people who inspire you. Um, it's normal to doubt yourself. It does not define you. Right? We are worthy of love and acceptance, just as we are today. So, um, those would be some of my words of encouragement. And then I also want to add something else, if I may. It dawned on me after I shared previously that some people may look at the gay community that I personally felt very much belonging to, and they might look at that very same community and look at it and be like, uh uh, no, this is not for me. This is not who I am. I don't want to be part of this. These are not my people. I don't. I don't like this. So I think it's important to talk to those people as well, because sometimes the I wish I wasn't gay kind of comes from a place of looking at the kind of stereotypical gay community and being like, oh, no, that's not what I want either. And so I think for those people, and we've talked about this a lot on the podcast, is, you know, that there's so much more to it than that. And I know that's. That's what we put out there, and I know that that's what we see with pride and everything, and we have to do a better job. We do. And I hope this podcast does some of that. But there are so many more queer people out there who also, that is not who they are, and they're living a wonderful, happy, fabulous, successful, healthy life as well. Find them. [00:36:34] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah, I love that. [00:36:36] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, guys, were there any final words on coming to accept your sexuality? [00:36:47] Speaker C: Well, you. Yeah, I mean, I love everything you said, michael, and what you said at the end, I think is really important, and I kind of touched on some version of it, but, like, of what I'm about to say, which is, like, representation, you being different and owning your difference means that there's room for everyone, and there's someone like you or similar to you out there who's looking for someone like them, you know? And so, yeah, I just. I think there's something to be said about, like, you really owning. Yeah. Owning and being who you are so that those who are around you and who, you know, come. Come after you see themselves, you know, because that was a big thing for me, I think. And I guess, lastly, I would say, like, you know, Martin Luther King was different, RuPaul was different. You know, Lady Gaga was different, pink was different. Like, there's a whole. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. These are all people who. Who were different, you know, and have become recognized and celebrated for that difference and who have inspired other people to be different, so, and to own their difference. So, you know. You, too. You, too. Yeah. [00:38:34] Speaker A: Beautifully said, as always. All right, guys, well, this concludes our national coming out day episode on I wish I wasn't gay. I hope the title didn't detract people. I hope, in fact, made you listen, especially if you're one of those people who has thought that thought, as I have myself. All right? So please remember that there are people out there who would really benefit from listening to this episode. So please do share it. Please do share this episode with someone who you think would need it. If you're new here, please like and subscribe to the channel. New episodes every Thursday. If you're looking for some of that community and goodness we offer in the gay men's brotherhood, please do join us. Go to gay mensbrotherhood.com for some of our events, including our sharing circles and connection circles. All right, thank you to Matt. And thank you to Reno, and we'll see you next week. Bye.