Family Matters

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to Gay Men going Deeper, a podcast series by the Gaming's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. We are your hosts. Michael Diorio is a life and wellness coach specializing in sexuality, relationships and self confidence. Reno Johnston is a spiritual life, love and business coach. And I am Matt Lansadel, an intuitive life and spiritual coach and counselor specializing in healing and empowerment. We each have our own coaching practice, but in this podcast we're sharing all of our best stuff. So today we're talking about family matters and we're going to be unpacking questions like what do you find challenging about family? How has your family shaped who you are and what matters most to you when it comes to your family? We'll continue these discussions on the last Thursday of every month in the Gay Men's Brotherhood Zoom Hangout where you'll have a chance to share your own experience. 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So for those of our young audience might not know, did I do that? Yeah. So the theme of the month in the Brotherhood is family dynamics. And when we originally were thinking about a topic, it was like, oh, we could talk about wounding, family wounding and these sorts of things. And I was feeling a little bit, a little bit toasted on talking about, you know, trauma and heavy family stuff and all these things. So I wanted to create a little bit more balance. And I know on the healing journey that can really happen to a lot of us. We get burnt out from healing and we create an identity around healing and then we have to actually move away from that when we start to move towards empowerment. And that's where I feel like I'm at right now. So I wanted to change the title to Family Matters. And it has a double meaning. So family matters. Meaning, like, matters that we deal with in our family. So it could be issues within our family. Yes, we want to. We want to talk about that today. But I'm also in a really interesting spot of, like, really looking at, you know, how much my family matters to me and how I've been shaped both positively and negatively by my family. So I'm trying to create balance there. So I figured I wanted to have. I wanted to believe this into the conversation today, and I wanted to normalize, like, you know, family, even just the word family can bring up a lot of emotion for people. It can be very mixed, right? We can in the same experience, say, you know, I love my family. And we can also, in the same breath, say, my family frustrates the. Out of me. Right? And I think it's. We want to honor both of those parts in us, and I think that's what I want. This. The intention of this episode is to be like, can we hold space for both of those experiences of family and share them? So I want to also, you know, just kind of bring voice to this whole notion of family, you know, speaking from both sides. Like, we have intergenerational trauma that can be passed down, right? And these sorts of things impact the way that we experience family when we're younger. And it can be, you know, it can set us up for struggle in life. But also things that are passed down intergenerationally are things like resilience, right? So there's aspects of every character in our family is going to have strength and weakness, right? And we're going to be influenced by both of those things. And I think I want to, you know, really the Listener, viewer, and YouTube to just think about that while we're sharing today is like, what are the. What are the resiliency factors within my family? What have we survived together that allowed us to really, you know, grow together? Because I think that's a big, big aspect of this, while also honoring that there may be inter. Intergenerational trauma within your family. And we want to honor that as well, too. So with that being said, our family really is the formation of who we are, right? It's the. It's the. The record button. In our family, we hit record for the first 10 years, and then we're playing that back for. For. For the rest of our lives, really. So we have shadow, we have light, we have both sides that are. That are present. So that's why I carefully crafted these questions today to kind of allow us to be able to focus on both of these aspects. So, yeah, let's start with Michael. What do you find challenging about family? [00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I love this topic. Thanks for that intro, Matt, as always, you've given me now more to think about based on what I was going to share. But this comes at a really good time because we just here in Canada had Thanksgiving at the time of recording. So, I mean, I'm coming off the heels of that. And right now, if you can, those of us watching on YouTube, I'm at my family cottage and my family is actually scattered all around. So this is perfect. Before I answer the question of what I find most challenging, because I know some of them listen to this podcast and they surely will listen to this one because of the title, I want to start by saying what I love about my family very quickly first, before I jump into the challenges. And there are them. So I do. I'm very grateful. One of the things I'm often very deeply grateful for is my family. It's often the top of my list up there with health. I know, like Matt, you were saying that that, that first 10 years, that record button, I'm very fortunate to have had. I mean, yes, there was negative aspects as well, but I'm very fortunate to have had the people around me that I did. Some of my happiest memories are with my family, especially in childhood. Even today as an adult here at the cottage, I have so many great memories here. Family dinners. For those of you who don't know, I come from a Italian background, so very traditional Italian background. So there's lots of love in the room, lots of affection. I was surrounded by that as a kid. And I'm also very fortunate to have. When I came out, they have all accepted me, which, again, I know that there's. I'm very fortunate in that because that's certainly not the case for a lot of people. They love me and that bond is tight. So I have really come to love and appreciate my family, even though they do drive me crazy. We'll talk about that. And even though we don't see eye to eye, but I think that at the end of the day, there's definitely more good that has come from it for me than the negative. So on that, let's talk about the challenges. So, like anyone, I didn't choose these people. Not consciously, anyway. On a soul level, maybe, but I didn't choose these people. I don't know if I would have, if I did have a choice. Right. That's the whole thing about chosen Family is there are people that we consciously choose and it's easier, I think, sometimes to love our chosen family and harder to love the ones that we're stuck with. So we don't get along all the time. Obviously, I'm very different than the, than the rest of my immediate family. Not only am I gay, there's no other gays in the family, at least that are out that, that I know of. But I'm the only one who's gay. I live in a big city. They don't. I'm non traditional in many, many ways. My outlook on life and politics and mindset, they're more traditional. Um, so it's hard to get along sometimes. It's, it's an extra step. Like I have to work harder sometimes to truly connect with them. And I gotta get creative. I gotta get creative in how I'm connecting. So there will be times where I completely disagree with someone on something they're saying. In one, this happened at Thanksgiving and I was like. But then like a minute later I was looking at them thinking, wow, you have so much love in your heart. And like, I just love you, like all within the same, like within a minute of each other. Right? And, and so that's the thing, like, I think that that's the challenge is it's, it's harder to love them sometimes, but because they're not going anywhere, I just got to make it work and they don't always get it right. So again, being with being the only gay in the family, like, I, I find myself having to have to not defend myself, but justify my life, my actions, my choices a lot of the time. And being shamelessly gay, as I like to be an unapologetically gay, There's a lot of people who just like, they shake their head when they see on Instagram or my TikTok or like, why are you doing that? Why are you showing up like that? Oh my gosh, why do you have to be like that? And it's, it's a lot of me having to like, justify it. And I will and I do, but they don't get it right. So that's, I think that's the most challenging part for me. As much as I love them, I do have to find a way to meet them halfway. And I will say this, I'll end with this, because they're not going anywhere because I am stuck with them. I kind of like that I'm forced to figure it out because it's a lot easier to just say, peace out. I'm out of your buy. But because we are a tight knit family, I can't just squeeze out of it. So it has taught me a lot of things like empathy, meeting and meeting people halfway. Yeah, that's probably the most challenging bit for me. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Thanks, Michael. [00:09:53] Speaker B: Yeah. How about you, Reno? [00:09:59] Speaker C: Yeah. That breath was filled with love and, and also experience, you know, my family, we're a really beautiful and dynamic bunch and I'll, I'll share as well that it, it doubled in size two and a half years ago when I met my biological father for the first time. Technically it was the second because apparently we met when, when, when I was three here in Vancouver. And there's a whole story there. It's a wild story, but I won't get into it too much just now. But my family doubled in size recently, so now I have all of these siblings, 1, 2, 5 more I think it is, and aunts and uncles and nieces and nephews and cousins, and it's pretty phenomenal. But, but growing up there was this kind of dichotomy in the household and within my family there was so much love and so much warmth and so much acceptance and welcoming and beauty and creativity and brilliance. And then on the other side, there was a lot of trauma, there was a lot of instability, there was a lot of adversity historically and, and also as I was growing up. And so that was very much visible and felt in, in my home. There were moments where we would, you know, we would have these beautiful like, family dinners and family gatherings and grandma would make her desserts and you know, we, we'd be in the kitchen and, and it was a whole thing. And you could feel the joy and the warmth and the celebration in the house. And then there were other moments where people were fighting. My grandma and grandpa could not even be in the same room until the final year of his life, actually, which is wild. He got really sick and she took him in and we took care of him right up until he passed. And it's so wild that it took him dying for them to squash their shit, you know, but, but sometimes I guess fatality mortality is. Did I, did I get that right? Yeah. You know, is a reminder of like, what's important, you know, what's important and what really matters. Right. So I would say one of the, one of the more challenging things about my family is that we're all really strong people. You know, we're all really strong, really wise, really seasoned and experienced people. We each got a piece of my mom and you know, and She's a force to be reckoned with. And so are we. And so that can be really beautiful when we come together in support of a common goal. And it can be really volatile when, you know, when we're. When we're butting heads because we don't agree on something, you know, and. And we will. We will stand grounded and rooted in. In what we believe in. Right. The beautiful thing is when, again, when that shared, I can remember, and then I'll more or less wrap up here, but I can remember when we were kids, we would scrap like each other, right? But if anybody else put their hands on any one of us is like, we would just come together and we would come for you and we would let you know, like, you don't put your hands on my brother or my sister only we do. [00:14:47] Speaker A: We. [00:14:48] Speaker C: We fight each other. But if you touch any one of us, we gonna get you, you know, so that was, to me, really special. And I know that if any one of us were in trouble, and I've seen it, we've had so many. Even in just the last couple of years, it's been wild. The stuff that has happened in my family, it should be a reality show, to be honest. But anytime there's a crisis in my family, like, we're all there and we're on it, you know, doesn't matter what's happening, what's going on between us, we're on it. And so I really, really love that. Yeah, I'll leave it there. Matt, what about you? [00:15:32] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for sharing, guys. You know, I find it interesting that, you know, well, to answer the question, what do I find challenging about family? Not necessarily my family, but family in general. Is that because it is the. The record button being hit, we take on all of these qualities of our parents, right? So from a very young age, we're looking up at dad being like, yep, yep. Okay, cool. I'm going to take on all these things. So we take on the good, the bad, the ugly. So it's that mirror effect, right? And then we develop ourselves, our sense of self, based off of the extension of what our parents are showing us through mimicry. And then we get this to this point in life. And I remember this exact time for me, like around 20, when I started to see my parents are fallible and they're human and that they suck at certain things. And. And, you know, then I started this whole journey, which I'm still on, around forgiveness of all those things. But then there's a really humbling point on the journey where you realize that the things I hate in them are the things that I hate in myself because I absorb those exact qualities. And I find that the work for me has been very triggering because that mirror is showing me me. That's what shadow work showed me, is it's like the very things that I dislike about my mom or my dad are the very things that I dislike in myself. So the work is to accept those things in myself so I can accept those things in my parents. And so forgiveness and acceptance, I would say, are the most challenging things about family because they're constantly mirroring things to us. So I get anxiety when I go to family functions because of that, because I'm like, oh, like, what am I gonna. What am I gonna feel today? Or what part of myself am I gonna be faced to. To sit with? And within my family system, both sides, actually, maternal and paternal, there's high anxiety, and I'm. I'm a pretty highly anxious person as well. But I have been working tremendously hard on that. So when I'm around anxiety, what I'm. What's actually activating for me is all of the coping mechanisms that. That my family uses to. To mask their anxiety. You know, perfectionism, dissociation, all these things are the things that I do, and those lead to. Those, for me, have led to disconnection, right? So when, for example, my father dissociates or avoids, it led to me feeling abandoned. So. So I would be so hard on my dad for being avoidant and having more of an avoidant attachment. But the funny thing is, is I do the exact same thing. And this has been the biggest realization for me. You know, I'm highly sensitive. I have sensory processing sensitivity. And I get it from my father. It's a genetic quality, right? Or genetic trait, and he has it. And so I've adopted the very things that he does to cope with his sensory processing sensitivity. I do the same things. So, yeah, it's really allowed me to have compassion and empathy. But the. All the things that had to come up for me around. Around this, and I'm actually still working on a lot of this stuff with my mother, because I think some of those things with my. With my mother, it's more relational. So the patterning that I absorb from her is my mother is a push, pull. She has a disorganized attachment, which is where I could develop my disorganized attachment. So seeing her push, pull, push away, and then pull in and push and pull, it's like, so activating for me. Because I'm like, you know, so. But the beauty of this is, if you want to know what needs to be healed, just hang out with your family for an hour. They, they're a beautiful mirror. So when you get to the point in your journey where you're conscious enough, it's like you can use that as, like, as fuel for your own healing journey. And if you're not quite there yet, some of our listeners might not feel like they're there yet. I would just sit down and I would write down, what do I dislike about my mom, what do I dislike about my dad? And not all of them will be traits in you. Right? Because we can still dislike qualities and other people that they're not inside of us. That's, but usually if they're really highly activated things that we don't like in that person, it's going to be things that, okay, maybe these, these qualities exist within me. So, yeah, I would say the biggest thing is the mirror effect. It's just, I find it super challenging. Yeah. Okay, so how has your family shaped who you are? Michael? [00:20:12] Speaker B: Okay, so, and you guys got me thinking. I, I, I thought of this and my mind went purely to, like, the positive things, but I'm gonna, just for the fun of it, I'm gonna add some of the maybe more negative things. So the first thing that came to mind for me was the sense of loyalty and commitment, not just in relationships, but just in life. Like, we are a very determined bunch. You know, I was taught never to run away from your problems, to roll up your sleeves and work on it, whether it's a relationship or a work challenger. In school, uh, I remember, you know, it was like, okay, we're not going to complain about it. We're just going to sit down and get it, get it done, get, figure out what to do. Uh, so I come from that kind of stock, going head first into challenge. I see that in me now, especially as an entrepreneur. I definitely get that from, none of my family comes from an entrepreneurial background, but that, that work comes from them. Work ethic, which kind of goes into the second one, which is discipline. I hated that my parents would make me do stuff as a kid, and they instilled in me the sense of, no, you've made a commitment, you have to keep it. Here's the discipline. You show up if you don't want to do it. You go to school when you're sick. Like, that kind of vibe. If you guys, if you guys can remember going to school, being sick and actually being Sick and being like, tough, you're going, that was my family. So that comes from them, and I think it comes from my grandparents all the way down, because my grandparents are the ones who immigrated here from Italy to Canada, and they were farmers in Italy. They were poor, so they built a life here in Canada from scratch, and they worked hard to acclimate to Canadian culture. They had multiple jobs to, to, you know, eventually buy a house, put their kids through school. And so we come from a family of very hard workers. That work ethic was certainly passed down through the generations, and they never had an education. I was close with my grandparents. They, they got to maybe like grade three before they had to go work on the farm, and they were more valuable on their parents farm than in a school. So they didn't have that much education. Meanwhile, my parents did, I certainly did, and generations that followed them. We've all gotten a chance to have a higher education if we want it, and we've all had the chance to experience things that they never could, like travel and just the nice luxuries of life that they never had. But they did all that, all that hard work for us very consciously. And so I'm very, very much aware, I'm getting emotional here. Very, very much aware that all the privilege I have today, and I will admit I have a lot of privilege, I will acknowledge it, but it is built on the shoulders of their sacrifice, no doubt in my mind. And so for that I'm very, very grateful. And I think that that has passed down to me. The work ethic piece has passed down to me, but it's also like a sense of I, I, I work hard to honor them. In a way, my grandparents have all passed away, but like, I know that they're here and I know that they're kind of pushing me when I, when I want to quit and give up, I can just hear, hear them say, no, that's not what we do. That's not what we do, Michael. And then the last thing is, this is specific to my parents, both my parents, my, my biological parents. It's in my DNA, it's even within my siblings, is my parents are probably the most warm, welcoming, affectionate people that I know. More so than me. I'm probably like the unfriendly one compared to my mom and my dad and my sister and brother as well. They're both very, very friendly. They're genuinely like nice people. Like, they will open their homes, open their hearts. Piles of food on the table. Come on in. What do you need Sit down, have a drink. Big hugs, kisses, all the things. They're very generous and gregarious. I, I see that. I mean, I'm not quite at that level, I don't think, but I am. I'm a hugger. You guys know, I love hugs and kisses and I'm very affectionate. I'm also love opening my home. I love having people over. I love to entertain. So I definitely get that from them. I love community. I love all that stuff and it's very natural to me. It just, I just love it. And I think I get that from them. I will say as well, I've had several boyfriends in my life and I've brought, brought all of them home to meet my mom and dad, stepparents and siblings. And they've all been welcomed with open arms as if they're part of the family, every single one of them that I brought. And I'm incredibly grateful for that. And I know it's not easy for them, at least it wasn't in the beginning. But I will say they've made it look effortless. And I've always been super scared, like, oh, how's dad going to handle this? I was mom going to handle this? Big hugs. Oh, come here. You know, big hug and have a drink. Let's sit down, let's talk. And they've been very warm and welcoming. So on the more maybe negative side, I will say again, both my parents and my siblings are incredibly. And me are incredibly stubborn. I get that feedback a lot. I like to call it determined. Stubborn is also a word. But you know, I like things my way. I don't like to budge. It's hard for me to budge. And I also have very high expectations that I think also comes from, from my parents. They have high expectations, I have high expectations. So that's not always great. I think, you know, it would have been nice to have a little bit more wiggle room and a bit more compassion. But the high expectations have helped in some ways as well. So I think those are the ways that they've. My family has most shaped me and influenced me. My friends will say, who know my mom and dad like you are like the perfect combination of both your parents in, in a good way. And actually, Matt, I remember when we went for a walk in Calgary, we had this conversation. One of the questions we had asked was in which ways are you most like your parents? And, and not right. So it's kind of reminds me of that. [00:25:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it does. That was a great walk and conversation. [00:26:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:04] Speaker A: Thanks. That was really beautiful. Yeah, I felt it was a very heart centered share. I felt everything that you said and it gave me a ton of things. I added like five things to my list. I was like, ah, okay. That's why I love these because sometimes I strug on my own and I, especially with this topic, I find it's really nice to have you guys go first and allow me to feel into that. So thank you. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Do your parents, both Matt and Rena, listen to this, listen to this podcast? [00:26:30] Speaker A: My mom does, but my dad doesn't, I don't think. [00:26:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:33] Speaker B: How about you, Rena? [00:26:35] Speaker C: I'm not sure I'm gonna ask my mom. [00:26:37] Speaker B: They're probably gonna listen to this one. [00:26:39] Speaker C: Yeah, well, she. She might be listening on the down low. I'm not sure, but it's possible she does and I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, yeah. I'm also really curious about who else I know listens to this that I'm like unaware of, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:26:55] Speaker A: I let go of that a long time ago because I'm like, honestly, like, I share very vulnerably on here and I'm like, if I started like nitpicking at who's listening to what, I'm just like, this is me, here I am totally. That's it. [00:27:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So I want to say two things to kind of open my response to this question. One is what we appreciate appreciates, and two is what we focus on expands. And I share that because something that I've seen in my life is that when I went through this period where I started to look at the ways that my family and family had shaped me negatively, we'll say, for lack of a better word, it was very confronting. And what I noticed was there was this tendency to focus on the adversity and to not. And to not focus on the really beautiful and positive and generative aspects of how my family shaped me. And so my invitation to anyone listening right now would be to, yes, look at, look at the ways in which your upbringing and your relationship to your family is challenging and to also simultaneously reflect on the experience that you want to be having in relationship to your family and then begin to look at what you can focus on, to begin to create that experience, you know, because I could very easily focus solely on. On the ways in which, like, let's say my parents fucked me up, you know, or like my brother and I got into it constantly. Right. But the reality is that there's another side to that, which is that my brother taught Me, Unconditional love. You know, he was one of the most challenging people to deal with in my. In my life. And it took years, years and years, decades, right, for me to finally come to a place where when we interacted, I just came with my whole heart and unconditional love. I love you still. He was my teacher. I think it was Matt who said at one point, I think you were the first person I heard this from. Our triggers are our teachers, and my brother was a trigger. And in that, he was also my teacher, you know, So I am grateful to him for shaping me into a more loving, compassionate, accepting person, particularly in the face of individuals who I experienced to be more and most challenging. You know, I hated chores. I hated chores. And my mom used to say to me, how come whenever I ask you to do something, it's always a fight, but you end up doing it in the end anyway, and you end up doing it better than anybody else does it. And for me, that was just like, it was about power and choice. You know, I was like, I. I want to be in control. You know, I want to decide that I want to do it, and I'm going to let you know that I'm doing it because I want to do it, not because you told me I have to do it. I'm so grateful for chores, though, because I value my space now. You know, I clean up after and it. And it's so frustrating to me when I'm in this space and people ain't doing chores. I'm like, who raised you? You know, like, are you kidding me? We, like, we were broke and we lived in low income housing and there was a chore chart on the fridge and every day when you came home after school, you cleaned something and on the weekends you cleaned the whole room. You know, so that was just, that was just how it went. And I'm so grateful for that because no matter how little or how much I have, I'm taking care of it. You know, we were super welcoming. We were super welcoming, and I've taken that with me. There was. Nobody was not welcomed in our home. If you were hungry, there was a seat at the table for you. If you needed a place to sleep, we had a bed. If there wasn't an extra bed, we made an extra bed. If there wasn't an extra plate, we made one, you know, and it didn't matter. We could have. We could have been like stretching a dollar and stretching, you know, a meal, but we still made some for you, you know, there was still some There for you and I. I took that with me as well. We were always, like. Even when we were broke as well, right? Like, we always looked good. My mom made sure we always look good. She made sure she always looked good. You know, my dad did the same. And they made sure we always look good, you know, and, and we, and we did not. They made sure that we were able to have experiences that would enrich our lives and that we would remember and that would be meaningful. And sometimes that meant that they had to hustle and beg and boil and steal, so to speak, in order to make those experiences happen. But we'll remember those forever. You know, I saw a commercial for Marine Land and my. I used to cry when I saw it. And my mom picked up on this one time and she made a note, a mental note in her mind that one day she was going to take us. Now this is a woman in her 20s, right, raising four children, right? And somehow, you know, she hustled. She made that trip happen. We drove all the way across from Manitoba to. To Toronto and she took us to Marineland. And that. I'll never forget that experience, you know, And I can only imagine what she had to do to make that possible. Right? So she, like. I definitely learned how to stretch a dollar and how to be creative and resourceful and. And resilient as well. You know, there's so many things. Strength, care, hospitality, a whole list of things that really, really shape me. And I think at the. At the core of it all, there's like this. This, like, I want to use the word wisdom, but even more than that, it's like heart or soul. Like, that is the gift that my family has given me. You know, I've got so much heart and so much soul. And I owe that to them, you know, I owe that to them. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I'm surprised I said all that. Well, I've not talked about my family like this before. This is wild. [00:34:39] Speaker B: That was beautiful. [00:34:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Thank you for sharing. [00:34:43] Speaker C: What about you, Matt? [00:34:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:45] Speaker A: I want to just say that this conversation is so heart opening for me. Like, I. I'm having like, such an interesting experience now. It's like my brain is like going into, like, wanting to find. This is what I've done a lot of my life. Find the things that are wrong. But my heart is wanting to open towards the things that I'm. That I have gratitude for. So honestly, the mirror of you guys today is so, so, so. It feels so healing. So thank you. Okay. Yeah. Where to go? So I think I came into this life, I think my soul chose the, the wounded healer path and maybe that some of it is past life wounding, but I think it was like, okay, we're going to go into this life and we're going to give you all the tools that you need, but there's going to be a lot of wounding. And then your path is to help people heal their wounds. And so I think that my family has shaped who I am by going being kind of almost like the characters that I needed in my soul life to struggle with and to learn and really master my life purpose. Because I went into my very first actual career was in counseling, right. And supporting and healing and these sorts of things. So it's almost like I needed to go through and develop the scar tissue to be able to do my work from a heart centered place. And I think that's where I'm at now. I'm really, you know, a lot of my own personal healing is what I teach from and it makes me relatable, it makes my work potent. There's a, there's a, an energetic transmission that I can offer people and that is through my pain, right. And through the things that I've endured in my life. So that's one, that's one of the ways I'd say on a deep soul level that's probably the most, the biggest one. And it's taken me a long time to get to a place where I can even experience gratitude for that. But I am, I'm starting to taste like gratitude for those experiences. One of the things too that I would say is like from a young age, I think I've shared this before, but my father left the household when I was nine. My mother basically put that protector energy onto me from a young age. And yes, it was, it was traumatic to have that put on me on my shoulders, but it also shaped who I am. Like, I'm very protective of the people in my life. I'm very nurturing. You know, growing up with two sisters with, you know, at certain, a certain point I had more contact with my father. But there was a, a period of time when I didn't have a lot of contact with them. So I was very much exposed to women and I was able to connect with that more like empathic nurturing side of myself. And then because I had a mother that I felt was, you know, struggling, I became very highly attuned to other people's needs, which is I'm learning is like such a great gift to have. So I can literally walk into a room, and I can, like, feel people. I'm like, okay, this, you know, And I. And I can, like, I can help people become comfortable, and I can help people heal because I can help them find out exactly what their needs are. And I've learned, actually, in the last while to turn that around on myself. And I'm like, I'm really getting good at understanding my needs and what. And. And so, yeah, that's been. Been really cool. So those are the things I had on there already. And then these. These are some of the things that you guys helped me really realize is. So. My dad, I remember him being, like, just, like, a total clown, like, in the early years of my life. Like, he would, like, walk around in his underwear, and, like, he was just a total goofball, and he was always making us laugh. And I think I've got that, like, in me as well. And I think he. You know, that's one of the things that I think I really love about my dad is that he can be, like, a total goofball and playful. And then with my mother, she has a very. She has a very sick and dark sense of humor. And that gave me permission to form mine, too, because I have a very dark sense of humor. I work with darkness, a lot of darkness. So, like, my sense of humor can be really, really raunchy and dark, and not many people can handle that. Some people get offended by my. My sense of humor. But my. I really appreciate that about my mom and then my. For my sister, you know, if I don't. I honestly don't know how I would have survived my childhood without her. Like, she was such a rock for me. And. Yeah, I don't know. She just. There was a period in my life where I really struggled being around people on my own, and I just didn't feel safe, like, forming friendships with people and. And whatever. And she, like, let me hang out with her and her friends because it just felt safe. It's like, I always wanted to be with my sister because I felt like she was, like, one of the safe people in my life at the time. So I'm just really. I find there's a lot of gratitude for. For her. And she's. You know, when I think about, like, my sister, like, whenever I think about her, I just. My heart expands. She's one of the few people in my life that I can think about, and it's just my heart immediately opens. And I actually used her in a couple of my therapeutic sessions with, you know, when I was learning how to open my heart and feel safe again. It was like she was my focal point. Her and my cat were the two, you know, that I really used to kind of open up. So very grateful for her. My paternal side of the family, very perfectionistic. And I'm learning that that's actually not necessarily a bad thing that, you know, I've learned how to curate. You know, my backdrop is always on point, these sorts of things, because I have that in me. My house is very tidy. I'm a hard worker, you know, so there's this thing, this part of me that I'm learning to appreciate. Right. I think it got me into trouble and it pulled me in towards my inauthentic self. But now that. That a lot of that stuff is healing, I'm able to recognize that there is a part of me that wants things to be just so. And that. That's okay, right? That that doesn't have to alter my authenticity. It can be collaborative with my authenticity, as long as I'm not using it to hide. Right. Like shame and inadequacy. I'm doing it from, like, I just really love things when they're just so. You know what I mean? And I think I'm learning that, like you, Michael, like, entrepreneurialism. So my mom was an entrepreneur at certain points in her career. My dad was an entrepreneur, my aunt's an entrepreneur. So I just. I had that kind of ingrained in me and. And I love that about myself. Like, I can't even imagine working for somebody. Like, I will never work for anybody ever again in my life. Right. Like, the grind is tough, but I love being my own boss. It is. It is just magical. And then my father is also really. He developed rosacea when he was. I know I was probably like 18, something like that. And he became really obsessed with health and wellness and supplementation and. And eating well and all these sorts of things. And that had a really strong influence on me. Both my parents were really into health and fitness and bodybuilding and these sorts of things. So I. I just think that that for me has been such a gift because I'm very health conscious and I very rarely have to go to the doctor or any of these things because I just take really good care of my health. I. I research my own health. I research everything. I'm very informed about my body and. And things like that. So. And then the last one I wrote down was hockey. So I grew up playing hockey, but I also grew up going to my dad's hockey games like a ton of them. And I loved it. And that is the biggest commonality between my father and I as we talk about hockey, and it brings us together. And hockey is one of my greatest joys. Like, whenever I'm watching hockey or playing hockey, I'm, like, in my element. It's exactly what I love to do. Um, and I definitely wouldn't have got that if it wasn't for my father, so. Yeah. Yeah, that felt good. I feel. [00:42:48] Speaker C: You mean, we know that. That was beautiful. [00:42:51] Speaker B: Yeah, there's some nice things in there. [00:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It felt good to reflect on them and share them, so thank you. [00:42:58] Speaker B: And then yours inspired within me with. With my dad was soccer. I used to watch with him. And I feel like I'm the only gay person who loves the World cup, like, the FIFA World cup, as much as he loves RuPaul's Drag Race. I can hold both. I'm like, no, they're both awesome. Yeah, that's a really good one. I love that. [00:43:19] Speaker A: Cool. Cool. [00:43:20] Speaker C: Basketball. Yeah. [00:43:21] Speaker B: Free as basketball. [00:43:23] Speaker C: Yeah. My dad would sometimes take us. He was so into basketball. He played university basketball, and he actually almost got drafted, but his needs were. Yeah, it was pretty cool. But. But, yeah, like, he would sometimes take us to the court, and my dad's, like, 6 4, so he would just. Yeah, we'd go the court and we'd, like, dribble and throw the ball and. Yeah, it's something I remember fondly. And to be honest, I think if the. If the guys at school weren't assholes, I probably would have got into basketball, you know? And I'll still dribble from time to time. Like, it's fun. I enjoy it as an adult. But, yeah, basketball and hip hop. Yeah. [00:44:01] Speaker A: Cool. [00:44:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:03] Speaker B: So you guys actually got that, like, athletic gene. I just diddled the soccer players. [00:44:09] Speaker C: That's a sport, too. That's also a sport. [00:44:12] Speaker B: My talent was not on the field. My talent was after. [00:44:15] Speaker C: Exactly. In the locker room. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:44:19] Speaker B: I didn't get the athletic jeans so much. [00:44:21] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. I love it. Okay, last question. So what matters most to you when it comes to your family, Michael? [00:44:32] Speaker B: Yeah, so this is great because I'm with one eye watching you guys, and with the other eye, literally, I'm looking at them all up there. My mom's playing with the dog, and. Yeah. So for me, it's traditions. Traditions such as this. So we come up in the fall to close up the cottage and went on. That's what we're doing here. We do this every. Every year for Me, it's traditions, it's the cornerstone of family for me. My sister and brother in law have their three kids. My brother and sister in law have their three kids. So we don't come together as much as we used to. But we will always make sure we come together for a Thanksgiving and Christmas, like at minimum sometimes we try to do birthdays here and there and Sunday dinners here and there where we can. But it's harder now with everyone having their own lives. So for me, yeah, those are the times that, that I have that anchor also could be weddings and funerals, but it provides that structure and that meaning during these like significant life events. And I used to as a kid, more so as a teenager, actually resent it. Like oh, I'd have to go to this felt like an obligation. I rolled my eyes. But especially lately in the last five years, I think I've really come to appreciate it. I see the value in it. There's a recognition that my parents aren't going to be here forever. I see them, I'm watching right now. I see them get older and they're reminding me of like my grandparents when I was a kid and I'm like, oh wow, okay, they're that now and I'm the adult and my nieces and nephews are the kids. So you know, it's very important to me that we do have those traditions and honor them. And on my one side of the family we are very disconnected. We have no traditions, we don't talk to each other, we don't even say hi, merry Christmas, nothing like that. And then on the other side we do. And there's such a big difference there because we prioritize seeing each other and that, that those even though if it's just a few times a year, it's still the fabric of our family values and our culture and that gets passed down generation to generation. And that consistency is important to me. So I'd say traditions are very important. And then the last thing I'll say is that next generation. So I have five nephews and one niece and they are 17, 15, 29 year olds, a 7 year old and. [00:46:45] Speaker A: A 5 year old. [00:46:46] Speaker B: I don't have children of my own yet. I know I'd make a great dad, but I have with these kids a chance to play that role sometimes, especially as they get older. I, I'll admit, like, but pre 12, I'm like, I don't know what to, what to do with you. But now with like the two that are older, 17 and 15, we have a. We have a deeper relationship. It's getting fun. I like the kind of conversations we're having. In fact, at Christmas, my niece says to me, she's like, you know that I see your tick tock, right? And immediately I'm like, oh, girl. I'm like, my tick tock is 18 plus and you are 15. And she's like, oh, yeah. And she, like, flips it open. She's like, oh, yeah, Your. Your video about sexting and bathhouses. I didn't even know what a bathhouse was. And there's things about thirst traps and grindr and friends with benefits and daddy culture. And I'm like, okay, okay, this is good. Like, we can have a conversation about this. You're 15. I can kind of give you the. Give you the. The tea on this. So I think I'm excited as. As my nieces or as my niece and nephews get older, getting to play that. That role as cool, cool gay uncle, that's really important to me, and I think I'm excited for that part of it. [00:47:58] Speaker A: I love that. [00:48:00] Speaker B: How about you, Reno? [00:48:04] Speaker C: Wow, that's good. That's good. You know, it's funny. On that note, I remember saying, like, one of the things that I. If I ever have children and even just with my nieces and nephews, the little ones, like, as they get older and were able to have some of those, like, awkward and uncomfortable conversations that, like, their parents are probably so scared to have with them because it's too close to home. I'm so excited to have those conversations with my kids, with my nieces and nephews, etc, like, that I'm looking forward to the most because I'm so equipped for that. I'm like, you know, you want to talk about it? Let's do it. There were. There were, I would say, three. Three fundamental things that came up for me in terms of what matters most to me when it comes to family. One is gathering. Yeah, just magic happens when we. When we gather, you know, always never fails. And when we gather, there's really this sense that, like, anything is possible. We're. We're filled up on food, on love, on conversation and connection and experience, you know, so gathering. The. The second one is team. We're a squad, you know, like, and I love that. It's so important to me, and it feels so amazing to me to know that when my family and I get together and we join forces again in service to, like, a common goal, magic happens. We're. We're a force to be reckoned. With, you know, And I just love knowing that. That. That that's there, that that's there at any time and knowing what we're capable of when we're together. And then the last one, I would say. And there's probably so many more that I'm missing, but meaningful moments. Meaningful moments, I think are really important to me when it comes to family. Just those. Those. Those moments that are, like, remarkable, meaningful, those moments we can look back on and remember fondly that evoke good feeling and inspiration and. And love, you know, because at the end of the day, what else is there, you know? Yeah. [00:51:03] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:51:04] Speaker C: Mic drop. [00:51:05] Speaker A: Mic drop. [00:51:06] Speaker B: I wanna. I wanna see your family in action. I want to be. I want to be part of this. [00:51:09] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:51:10] Speaker B: On the wall during one of your gatherings. [00:51:12] Speaker C: You know what? Okay, so we're gonna plant this seed in the cosmos right now. At some point, Michael and Matt, y' all are gonna be in the same room as me and my family. We're in a break bread together, and it's gonna be a blast. [00:51:27] Speaker A: Blast. [00:51:27] Speaker C: It's gonna be a blast. Y' all will crack up. It's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. And my brothers. My brothers are hilarious. Like, they will give us all our, like, not, like I say, a hard time, but we have a dark sense of humor, too. So to be honest, like, we're not. We're not PC. Me and my brothers, when we're together, like, the gay jokes. Oh, my gosh. The stuff that. Oh, yeah, we. We. We crack gay jokes. We crack race jokes. Like, I'm not going to lie. It's not PC, Right. So you won't see or hear any of that recorded. But we have fun because we grew up in adversity, so we had to take what was dark and make it funny and light, you know? And that's where that comes from. Yeah. [00:52:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I think people get offended. [00:52:13] Speaker C: What's that? [00:52:14] Speaker A: I just. I think people get offended way too easily nowadays, to be honest. It's like. Like, I get it. There's. We got to be culturally sensitive in these sorts of things, but it's like, you know. You know, I think, yeah, we're. We're all taking ourselves a little too seriously in today's world. [00:52:28] Speaker B: I agree. [00:52:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I'd love to see photos. Maybe we can do the same thing we did with the Inner Child podcast or episode or theme, and we can ask everybody to post a picture of their family in the. In the brotherhood, I think. [00:52:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:41] Speaker A: Great. [00:52:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I just posted one. And Matt, you did the same for Thanksgiving. We all posted some photos. [00:52:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that was nice. I love seeing that. I love seeing it. Okay, so what matters most to me when it comes to my family, you know, I. I feel like one of the biggest things is, like, a common thread. Like, we all have shared lived experience. That's an important one, especially in my immediate family, like that, you know, my mom and my dad and my sister and I, like, we all know what we experienced and that it was challenging and it was also beautiful, you know, and we. We can reflect on that, and it's really cool. I had a. You know, I think it was a couple. Well, I've been back in Calgary now for two years, so it must have been three years ago. I was going through a really, really dark time, and it lasted for like a year. That was like one of my dark nights of the soul. And I remember I just reached out to my sister and I was like, do you want to hop on a zoom and just talk? And we just literally hung out for like an hour and a half and just, like, cried about, like, things we experienced. And it was very healing. And she gets it. And it's like, you know, I've gone to therapists, I've gone, talked to friends about my pain, and, like, they can practice empathy. But it's different, right, with her. Like, she knew exactly what we both experienced. And, yeah, it was. It was really nice to have that moment with her. It was. It's kind of almost like a turning point for me in starting to open up my heart to, like, be able to, like, really recognize, like, some of this pain and then start healing it. They're there for me when I need them. My mom's my biggest supporter of my work. She literally comments. Comments on everything that I create. It's hilarious. And I haven't been creating much lately, actually, so she hasn't been doing it, but she. You'll always find a comment from my mom saying that she loves my work and I'm her precious baby boy, and she loves me to the moon and back and all these things. So, yeah, that's. And I think part of me, I'm learning how to let that back in, which is. Yeah, it's. It's coming. It's definitely coming. Um, and then one thing that stood out is I went to New York for my 21st birthday, and my dad came with me to all the gay bars that I went to, and he danced with guys, and guys were coming up and hitting on him, and he was just super cool, cool with it. And, you know, I'VE always had that. Like, my friends always growing up were like, really, like. I remember friends would come over and they would just hang out with my dad and I'd be like, what the fuck, man? Like, you're here to hang out with me. But I've always had like a really cool, cool. Like my mom was cool, my dad was cool, and my friends loved them. And so, you know, that was a really cool experience for me because I never had an issue coming out. I feel very grateful for that. Like, I came out when I was 18 to my mom and my sister on Mother's Day. They were like, so, okay, cool, like moving on. And we just, it was just whatever. And my dad was fine with it too. Like, he didn't really have an issue. I think he might have been internally a little uncomfortable at first. I think all fathers feel like, okay, I created this guy and he's gay and what does that mean about me? I felt that a little bit from him, but not, not a lot. And then I think he just stepped up and he, he was there for me. And he, you know, we always had like good talks and heart to hearts about things that I was struggling with. And he helped me through my addiction. Actually that. Whoa, I totally forgot about that. So he. My dad, when I went through my crack addiction, I went to rehab when I was 18 and there was phase one, two and three and phase one was like a 30 day stay for me. And then I got out and then phase two was my family going. And my dad went and stayed at this, at the, at the rehab center for. I can't remember if it was like a week or three days or something, but he, he devoted the time to that because I was living with him at the time and, and I don't think I went back for phase three. I think I. Because I would continued my addiction beyond that. I still had a lot of healing to do, but just. I don't know, he's always been there for me and it's just been. Been really, really beautiful. So. Yeah. Yeah. This is weird. This is very weird. Yeah, some, some stuff's coming through, which is really nice. Yeah. Yeah. [00:56:56] Speaker C: Wow. [00:56:57] Speaker A: We managed to keep it under an hour. That's good. [00:56:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:02] Speaker A: We got three minutes. [00:57:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:05] Speaker B: For anyone who's still listening, just thank you for like sticking with us on these. [00:57:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's beautiful. Any other. Any closing comments from you guys? [00:57:16] Speaker B: I want to just thank you guys for, for letting, letting us into your family life. It's not an aspect we get to talk about very much on this podcast. So I think it's really cool to. To. I was imagining Reno and this, you know, family life in Umad, and it's just really cool to see you or get a glimpse of that side of you. [00:57:32] Speaker A: It's cool. Yeah, I agree. [00:57:34] Speaker C: I want to hang out with your daddy. [00:57:38] Speaker A: Go. Go clubbing with my dad. [00:57:40] Speaker C: Yeah. No, it's so funny, the parallels in our stories too, Matt, because I feel my dad came out to the gay bar with me one time and I was like. He's like, you think I haven't been in a place like this before? I was like, oh, really? Okay. But, yeah, it's so cool. Yeah. [00:57:57] Speaker A: Yeah, that was. [00:57:58] Speaker B: I would die if my dad was at a gay bar. Like, I would probably drop dead. [00:58:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Especially if there was a dark room. Could you imagine? Okay. Yeah. Amazing. Okay, well, thanks for everybody for tuning in and like Michael said, sticking with us as we. We go into those more tender spots and beautiful spots. Yeah. If you have not already, please come and join us in the gay men's brotherhood. Yeah. We got a really thriving community over there, and we're doing some really cool things and we have things coming down the pipeline. More specifically, the Zoom hangouts. Right. That's really where people can come and. And share and talk about your family. That's why we have them. Right. We get to talk about ours on here, and then we hold space for people to come and share. We'd love to hear about you and your family the last Thursday of every month. And yeah, if you're watching on YouTube, please leave us some comments how this episode landed for you. What's family? What family means to you. We'd love to hear from you. And if you're listening on your favorite podcast platform, please leave us a rating. And if you enjoyed what you heard, leave us a five star rating because it helps us get into the ears of the people that need to hear our message. So much love to everybody. Much love to you too. And we'll see you in the next episode.