Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Gay Men Going Deeper. This is a podcast by the Gay Men's Brotherhood where we talk about personal development, mental health and sexuality. Today, I'm your host. My name is Michael Diorio. I am a life and wellness coach specializing in sexuality, relationships and self confidence.
And today we're going to be talking about sharing NSFW picks. NSFW stands for Not Safe for Work. If you're not familiar with the term, basically it means any content that is inappropriate that you wouldn't want your boss or coworkers to see you looking at.
Another way to describe it is X rated.
Specifically, we're going to be covering things like why do we send these things in the first place? What are the risks of sending NSFW pics? Does it impact how a relationship unfolds? Are we too desensitized to nudity?
And of course, we will leave you with some best practices for sending and receiving notes. And to help me unpack this juicy topic, as always, who is so good at helping me impact these loaded topics is Pepper from the Gay Good. Pepper, thank you so much for coming back to the show.
Pepper's been on the show a few times now, so for those of you who don't know who you are, Pepper, go ahead and introduce yourself.
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me on again, Michael. Hi, everyone listening. My name is Pepper. I'm a content creator living in Los Angeles, California. This is my third time now being on the podcast. Really grateful to be here. I love listening to all of the episodes and I love coming in to discuss these juicier topics. Seems to be my niche. It's calling to me.
I'm excited to talk about the NSFW topic as well. Today. There's a lot we're going to get into, so without further ado, let's go for it.
[00:01:47] Speaker A: All right, awesome. Thank you, Pepper. And yeah, let's jump in. So I wanted to do this topic because obviously you guys know that I love talking about things that we do but not talk about. I love bringing light to some of the things that we all do.
And sharing nudes and SFW pics is certainly one of those things.
This is a relatively new phenomenon, not like in the last couple years, but like generationally speaking. This is something that our generation has had to deal with that other generations have not, especially with the rise of social media. So if you look at it from that macro point of view, we're learning as we go, there's not much of a precedent to go by, which I think is why it's really important to have conversations about it.
And so I want to acknowledge right from the jump that I respect that not everyone sends NSFW photos. And that's fine. That's not what we're here for.
As always, we don't want to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. That's not the purpose of this podcast, and that's not what this episode is about. So we want to speak to those of you who are engaging with this.
I think it's really helpful that the conversations that we're going to have can stimulate your own thoughts so that you can be more intentional with your decisions, whatever decision that is. Right. So we're not here to tell you what to do, what not to do. We're just going to share some thoughts and help. Hopefully that stimulates some intentionality for you.
Okay, good. Now that that's out of the way, where. Where does this happen? Where are we sending these NSFW photos? So some common examples are Grindr, Scruff, Sniffies, other apps where you do that kind of thing, where it's kind of normalized to do that. But it could also be on social media, such as Instagram, in the DMs, on your close friend stories, TW or X, whatever you want to go by. I still like to call it Twitter because I'm old school.
Very common to be seeking content there.
It might also be in Facebook chats or groups or maybe even a chat group, like a WhatsApp group. And another common one is Snapchat. So these are just a few, but basically you kind of know where this is going on. It could also just be texting on your phone.
And I wanted to share in preparation for this. I was looking up, like, okay, who. How many people are, like, really doing this? I want to find some facts and figures.
And I found a report.
It's a survey of 2,000Americans, was run by one poll and the Avast Photo Vault a year ago. So September 2022. And this group was divided evenly, which is interesting, between men and women of all ages. So I would like to think, or I do think, that there's no evidence of this, but I think that if we apply this to gay men only, the numbers are probably going to be higher. But either way, it gives us a starting point.
So the survey found that one third of all respondents had shared nudes in the past.
52% of those who do it say they did it at least once a week.
And 39% say that they kept their nudes on their phone, so they have it on their phone, so they have them on their device.
Some of the reasons why. So they were asked, why do you send these in the first place?
The top, the top reasons were long distance relationship, they were being. Another one was they were just asked by their partner or asked by somebody to send them a nude, so they did it.
The third reason was they just felt attractive and they wanted to send it. And then the fourth reason was they just felt like it.
And then for those who don't share NSFW photos or nudes, they asked the reasons why and the top reason was they were worried about it being shared with other people.
And the second most common reason was it was going to impact the reputation negatively.
And to that end there's a lot of other facts and figures, but this is the one I'll leave you with.
Nearly three quarters of those who shared their photos with people later found out that they were leaked or shared without their permission. And that number is astonishingly high to me. I'm like, wow. But totally makes. It's a legit fear, right?
All right. So another reason why I wanted to do this is because in the Gaiman's Brotherhood Facebook group, for those of you who are in there, there was a post a couple weeks ago and someone had said, what are your thoughts on sending nudes? Great open ended question that we love to see in the Gaiman's Brotherhood gives people a chance to give their own thoughts and opinions. So I'm not going to read all the examples because as you can imagine, it elicited quite a few comments, but I'm going to read you just a few. A smattering to get us started and then going to pass this question over to Pepper and he can answer his own thoughts. So here are some of the comments on the topic. What are your thoughts on sending nudes?
One person said, I love having my stuff out there, knowing guys are getting off to it.
Another one said, I don't send nudes nor do I want to receive them. It's not my style, it just feels weird to me.
Another sentiment was, I don't see the point, I just look up porn.
Another one was, as long as both parties agree, it's fine.
Another comment was, I prefer to get to know someone first before sending them.
And then probably my favorite, the one that I really enjoyed was this.
It's funny how people are keen to share their genitals to random strangers, but don't have the capacity to share emotional vulnerability to people they love or even like, damn. Right, damn. Oh, nailed it. I'm like, that is. That is a great one. So we could certainly talk more about that today, too. All right, and just. Just for those of you who are not in the Gay Men's Brotherhood Facebook group and are not going to join the Gay Men's Brotherhood Facebook group, we welcome you. But just know that we do not share nudes in this room, and that's not what it's about. So don't join it thinking that that's what we're doing over there.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: We're actually.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: We actually have rules around not having shirtless photos in the. In the group. But either way, you can come join us for great discussions about personal development, mental health, and sexuality.
All right, that's my spiel. Pepper, dying to hear from you. What are your thoughts on sending nudes?
[00:07:42] Speaker B: What are my thoughts? You know, I go back and forth with it. I do share nudes, receive nudes. I particularly use Grindr and Instagram, you know, when seeking or when sharing.
Someone said in the comments, if both parties agree to it, I'm fine with it. And I think I'm in that camp. I do like to get to know someone a little bit. Doesn't have to be that much. I don't even know their entire life story. But if the vibe is that we're potentially going to hook up, we're interested in each other.
For me, in any relationship, whether it's friends with benefits, which we've covered before, whether it's something more serious, I think sex is really important to me and someone that I can see as a partner. So I like to discuss these more juicy, maybe even taboo topics earlier.
And, you know, a visual component definitely helps.
So I do send them. I take, you know, some precaution in sending them, and, well, I'm sure we're going to get into that. I do have that fear in my mind that what I send can be not necessarily used against me, but shared without my consent, showed to people I didn't intend to see it.
And we'll go more into that, I'm sure, but when it comes to nudes, I'm pretty comfortable with it. And in fact, sometimes I catch myself thinking, here you are just sending your album after a few messages, whereas, let's say five or six years ago, you were a lot more discreet and conservative with it.
So that kind of leads into the desensitization that I'm sure we'll discuss as well.
But, yeah, long story short, I'm comfortable with nudes.
Look forward to it on Occasion and will continue to until, you know, I'm in a place where that's not suiting what I'm looking for.
Perhaps in a relationship where it's completely closed, but for right now, pretty comfortable with it. Open to it. Opening with, sharing with friends, having discussions about sexuality, sharing.
And, yeah, it's. So it's part of, I guess, my. My routine, for lack of a better word.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's. I mean, one of the reasons why I love having you on this podcast and why you've been on so many times is you do have a very open energy about it, and I think that's exactly the right approach.
Um, so let me ask you this, then. You said it's kind of part of your, you know, getting to know somebody, sussing them out if you're going to meet them and whatnot. Have you ever received nudes and then decided, oh, no, never mind, I don't. I'm not interested?
[00:10:22] Speaker B: That's a. That is a good question. I would say yes, but.
But, but not. But not often. Usually if I'm just sending nudes to send nudes, it's more of a hookup situation.
But if it's something more serious, even though currently that's not my jam, we're sort of just in a focusing on me and having our fun while we can era.
But if it's something more serious, I like to see the chemistry in person. And even though, like, the nudes might not be popping off, that doesn't mean that the chemistry can't make up for it. But, yeah, there's been times where I've received a photo and been like, oh, maybe, maybe not for tonight, but we're all God's creatures.
[00:11:07] Speaker A: Yeah. So what goes into your decision if you're sending them? Because you had said that previously you were maybe more conservative, now you're not. I'd be curious to know why that might be. And then also when you're having that decision, like, oh, if someone says, hey, what's in your album? Question number one on Grindr these days is, do you just, like, send it because they ask, or do you have any kind of, like, discernment?
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good question for me. I don't share my album right away. I think I mentioned on our conversation on Grindr that I have that little note that says, doesn't accept NSFW right away.
So just takes a few messages.
But I don't want the first message to be a dick pic. And my first message will never be my album or any type of photo in that regard. So when I do decide to click send or share the album, it's more like there seems to be a vibe going. We've had a few conversations or a few messages, you know, I'm getting a little worked up.
So let's add the visual component to it and see if it's fully, potentially a match.
When it comes to how I used to be a little bit more reserved on the apps, I think I've just gotten more comfortable with my sexuality and viewing myself as a sexual person. I think when I was in my earlier 20s, there was more shame that I was still holding on to.
There was definitely some dysmorphia I was battling and thinking, oh, this isn't a great photo, he doesn't want to see that. And now I think I'm just more confident and sure of myself.
And even though I do have that fear of someone sending a photo or sharing with it with someone that I didn't intend to have that image shared with, I think I'm, I'm less worried about it than I used to be. And this, you know, this might be extreme, but I think if someone does see a risque photo of me, you know, you're welcome. Yeah, that's sort of the, the energy I have with it. I can't control what's going to happen to the photo.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: I love it.
[00:13:17] Speaker B: I'm kind of letting go of that, but that doesn't mean I'm out here sending, you know, dick pics.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: But 24 year old me was definitely a lot more fearful, shameful and reserved than 27 year old me.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So if someone asks you, let's use the Grinder example since we're there. If someone asks you, or I guess it could be anywhere. Oh, hey, show me your, show me your dick. Show me your eyes, whatever, show me your nudes. Are there times where you'll say no?
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[00:13:44] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:13:44] Speaker B: I mean, a lot of it has to do with where I'm currently at in my day. I work a lot. I currently have three jobs, so we're out here.
So there's times someone will message me, whether it's someone I know or someone completely random, you know, on Grindr and I'm just not in that place. So it's a no, maybe later situation and I communicate that. I'll make that clear. Like, listen, I'm at work and sometimes I'm just not feeling it. Sometimes if it's a little too aggressive, the approach, and I feel like you're just here to collect photos that I probably meant anything.
And I think a lot of guys still do that on the apps trying to build a little spank bank for themselves.
And I mean, you do you. But I'm going to do. And sometimes me is declining. Respectfully declining. But you. I never feel like I have to. Even if it's someone I've been with before, maybe even hooked up with before.
I don't owe anyone anything.
Even though at times I will happily send a photo and engage and maybe ask for one back.
[00:14:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I love that you talked about pit collectors, because that is probably what goes into my decision making factors as well.
The first thing is, do I know this person is real? Because so many times people will try to catfish and try to just get pictures out of me.
So I now have become a lot more discerning. I think in my older age I kind of went the opposite. Not that it's a body thing, but I'm just more discerning of people who are trying to pull one over me who are not who they say they are trying to get my nudes. So now what I. I'll do is like ask myself, is this person real? And to figure that out, I make sure that I have them on like Instagram. It's not just. Or they, they're legit if it's on Grindr, that all their profiles are, are like tied to something, Facebook, Twitter, like so that their identity is a little bit more verified for me.
Or if it's something like Snapchat, they've like sent a live photo, not just a photo that could be of anybody. Like I know the difference. So that for me is, is number one. Do I know the person is real? And then yes, pick collectors. Oh my gosh.
I get it. You said it so well. I get it. I've been there. Sometimes I just want to rub one out and it's before bed or whatever and that's fine. But I'll say that like, I'm really horny right now. Here's what's going on, you know, oh, show me. Like, prove it. That kind of, that kind of banter, which is fun. I like it. But yeah, I think, well, I think it's different with us.
Are you, are you still single?
[00:16:15] Speaker B: I am still single.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: Okay, good. So this is interesting. So I'm coming from. I'm in an open relationship. So for me, I'm not looking for a relationship. That's not why I'm there. Clearly it's. It's for fun and that kind of more casual is what I'm looking for. But for you, it could be casual or potentially could be something more than that.
So I think it's interesting that we have these different perspectives, but the same issues pop up.
Another one for me is if it's someone that. If it's like an Instagram, close friends is like, has this person already seen me naked? With those people, I tend to be a lot more trusting. I don't know if I should be, but, like, I'll just set my whole body face and all, whereas typically I won't. I'll kind of cut my face off of it just in case.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great point. On my albums or whatever I send on Grindr, there's no face. It's just the goods.
But on the close friend story, or if it's a regular hookup or someone that's like, hey, I've been thinking of you, I'm definitely much more keen to sending something more intimate, whether it's a video or something with face.
I know there could be some reciprocation there, but I never expect that. That's also something that I think I've. I've learned is that, you know, you. You send these, but you don't necessarily have to get one back. But some guys get really pissed when they send something, or if I send something and they're like, oh, you don't want to see what I'm working with tonight? And I'm like, no, I don't.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Save that. You take care.
[00:17:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I. That entitlement of, like, if they start off by sending me their album or pictures, and then I'm just like, okay, like, what do you want me to do with that? There's nothing for me. But then that entitlement that comes with, like, oh, you have to send it back to me, I'm like, I never asked for this, so I owe you literally nothing. And that really annoys me. We're going back to our kinder on Grindr episode. For anyone who's enjoying this conversation and has not heard kinder on Grindr, I will link it in the show notes because that was a great chat, too.
All right, let's talk about. One of the questions that came up in the. In the Facebook group was, what's the point?
What's the point? Why send this?
[00:18:18] Speaker B: It's a great question. I think there's a few. You know, one is the whole matchmaking aspect of it. If you're looking for a hookup, if you're looking for.
And it could be a More serious relationship too. It's seeing if you are interested in what's going on, if you have that compatibility. And that goes into not just sending nudes, but also having the. What are you into conversations. What do you turn on conversations? So that's part of it for me. It's also sometimes, you know, I don't always feel great in my body every single day, but on those days that I do, it's fun to show off, whether to someone on a nap or maybe to some friends, like, this is how I'm feeling today.
The sun is hitting me just right. The mirror pick is giving.
So I do like find fun and like silliness and like silly fun, playful energy in that and sexiness.
And sometimes it does come from validation. You want someone to say, oh yeah, you're looking good, that's a hot pick.
And you know, whatever the motive, I think I sometimes used to do it for the wrong reasons and maybe it would be more of an insecure search for validation.
You know, earlier 20s, me that didn't have all the self love, didn't have the community that I have around me now and didn't have, I guess the, the foresight or the wisdom in navigating these apps.
At times you can feel vulnerable because of that and be taken advantage of. And I think there definitely were times growing up where I sent photos to people that I probably shouldn't have, but I've definitely learned from that and now I do it for more of an honest, more authentic, self loving energy. And sometimes it's more like, you know what, I'm horny and here we are and let's talk about it and let's, let's show off. Why not?
[00:20:18] Speaker A: Yeah, great. Yeah, I, I think I would, I would agree personally with a lot of that stuff as well. And even the same thing with early twenties versus now. It's very different reasons why.
But let's. This is an interesting one. If you meet someone at a bar and you have a connection, you're not going to see their nudes, presumably depending on what kind of bar it is, but you're not going to see their, their goods before let's say you go home with them or whatever. Right.
Is it necessary to see those, to see those goods, as you say, before taking the next step with somebody?
[00:20:52] Speaker B: No, I don't think it's necessary. In fact, what was this last week ahead of conversation on Grindr and actually ended up going to this guy's house and I didn't see anything other than torso. A few face Photos.
And we were just having good conversation. He was like, do you want to come over, see where things go? And on the way there, I was like, should I ask for a photo? And I was like, you know what? Let me be surprised in whatever way it goes. It ended up being a really hot encounter and someone I would definitely be down to fool around with again and continue to get to know in other ways as well. But I don't necessarily need it every single time. And especially in those more in person bar situations, it would be a little weird to be like, so before we get back, do you mind opening your. Your secret folder?
[00:21:47] Speaker A: All right.
[00:21:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. That's a little creepy. That seems a little reduced.
So, no, I don't think I always need to see what's going on. But it does make sense when you're on an app, have this person in front of you to ask for a little bit more.
But I also know if I ask for more and there's a good vibe going and they decline, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm no longer interested.
[00:22:18] Speaker A: I think for me, I almost prefer.
I'm gonna. I'm debating this as I'm saying it, so I don't know if the answer here, but I think I like the mystery better. I think there's more fun for me. First of all, I love the chase. I'm one of those people who just loves the chase of meeting someone, seeing someone, like finding my way to them throughout the night. I just love that that turns me on. So part of it for me is also the mystery. I love that there's a mystery. I'm like, okay, this person's smoking hot. And I just the curio of wanting to know. But I wouldn't ask for their photos. I would try to make it happen IRL in real life.
And I think that's more fun for me personally.
Yeah, I think that is versus seeing the photos. As great as that may be, it kind of takes the fun out of it for me a little bit.
Yeah.
[00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. I think it would be a little strange to ask for photos IRL. Yeah, pretty sure we've seen like those YouTube clips people used to make. Like, what if Grindr was real life and you go exactly like into like, that's not how we communicate. And I hope that's never how we communicate in person.
And even though we have these quirky norms on these more sexualized apps, I think that's, you know, scruff culture, Grinder culture, which we've already discussed at length, is something to navigate and there's do's and don'ts. Again, listen to that episode. So, yeah, but in. In person, it's a completely different game.
That being said, though, I think it is fun to, to share photos or videos after potentially hooking up with someone you met in person and then being like, oh, so what photos do you have yourself afterwards to see?
You know, I think, I think that's kind of fun.
[00:24:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like, give me a reminder of. Of that experience.
I think you're right. I think it is absolutely a norm of not just Grindr, just online culture, social media, just. Just this era of apps and connect, air quote connection that we're getting on. On social media apps. I think there. It's rare that someone won't have nudes. It, like, people will hardly ever say, oh, no, I don't share those. Like, it's very normalized now, which is interesting. But I think there's also sometimes pressure. Right. So if, if you say, oh, no, I'm not sending that, I think people might look at you like, what, why? Like, what's. What's wrong with you? That kind of, that kind of vibe.
Yeah.
[00:24:56] Speaker B: There would definitely be guys that are. Are like, why or what are you afraid of? Or might even like, say something even more condescending or biting if you're not willing to share nudes. But that goes back to what we said at the beginning of the episode as you. So, you know, beautifully said. It's not for everyone. And if you don't want to send those photos, neither of us are saying you should. If that doesn't. If that's not authentic for you, if you don't feel comfortable, then by all means, stand in that. But just be aware that the apps that you may be going on, especially of a grinder, that will be asked pretty often, but, you know, stand in your truth and in who you are and, you know, you're. You're golden.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So the, the motivations I think that you had laid out, they arranged on a lot of that. So the personal empowerment one I think is kind of. That one's a great one. I think for anyone who has gone through any kind of, like, physical journey with their body where they did not like the way they looked and now they do whatever that looks like.
I think it's very common to want to, like, put that out there and you feel, you feel empowered by it also your body or choice. Do what you want. Right.
But the other side of that is the validation. I'm so happy you talked about that, like validation feels good. We all love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. That's good. We like external validation. We're human.
But is it. The only place you're getting it from is from your, your, your news. Like that's it. Like you're not getting it from any other aspect of you that deserves validation.
So knowing that, first of all, knowing that you're getting the validation and that's why you're doing it, A, awareness and then B, recognizing that, okay, this should not be the only place that I'm getting my sense of self worth field because it's. There's more to me than my body. There's more to me than my dick pic or my aspect, whatever it is you're showing out there.
And the other mistake I see is mistaking these kinds of chats and this kind of like, oh, I'm going to send my body to you and let's like sext and all that as a, as a thinking that it's intimacy, like emotional intimacy. And those are two different things. Right? Sex is one thing, intimacy is another. And you can have them overlapping and that's a beautiful thing when it does. But also you could have sex that has no intimacy in it and then intimacy that has no sex in it. So I think having that laid out for you the way I just did it really helps because I think people lump it all in together. Like, oh, I'm going to send you my nudes now we are in an intimate relationship or this is what intimacy is. That's not quite true, is it?
[00:27:23] Speaker B: No.
In fact, that definitely resonates with me. I had this whole situation go down. Here's a little story where I was, had a kind of a difficulty of coming from a virtual like sexting place to in person.
I met this guy about a year and a half ago now. It doesn't really matter, but we met. Then he slid into my DMs, things sort of escalated, photos were shared and I think that gave him the impression as kind of makes sense that something was going to happen. Cut to a few days later. I ran into him on the street when I was just having like a night out with my girlfriends. Very wholesome, you know, as wholesome as West Hollywood can get. But spotted me and was kind of giving me those eyes like, we're going to hook up tonight. And I wasn't looking for that. And I wasn't in the same headspace I was when I was sending those messages.
And that was a big lesson to me to learn to communicate expectations, to let guys know as well. Like, this is when I'm free. This is when I would want maybe something to happen and not just leave it open ended and up to interpretation when so much can be lost in translation or miscommunicated. Because I sent you a photo of my booty, you know, it doesn't mean that the very next time you see me, you're gonna get to play with it.
[00:28:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: I think there's some expectation setting that needs to be practiced and also some expectations on yourself as well of, oh, when I sent this or we were having this conversation, I was in this mindset. Maybe this person now thinks XYZ is going to happen.
And that's something I think I still not struggle with, but still have to constantly remind myself of when having, you know, more sexualized conversations, when sending nudes and also picking and choosing who to give my time to.
[00:29:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. In this case, did you see him again?
[00:29:33] Speaker B: No, it act. Yeah, good question. Let me finish up the story. I think that night there was just poor miscommunication and we sort of got into this place where each time we saw each other there was just tension.
It continued on for basically a year. And it was weird because he's good friends with my roommate.
So sometimes they'd be hanging out and my roommate would invite me, but I'm like, oh, but this person's there. And it's kind of strange.
A few months ago, actually, I did go up to him in a bar and sort of address the whole situation and was like, hey, I could have handled that better. And I basically said what I told you I was having a hard time going from virtual sexual mode into in person irl. Here you are in front of me mode and sort of communicated that because I didn't want him to think that I was just collecting pics or I was, you know, just using him for that night. It was more of an internal struggle.
So I think by communicating that and also acknowledging that we, we share a close friend, I wanted to just clear the air and cut the tension. And since then, when we've seen each other, it's been a lot more pleasant. I don't necessarily think those sexual vibes will return, but I definitely had to take a step back and say, you know, Pepper, you did not handle this correctly. And there seems to be potentially maybe shame or like hurt or neglect on his part.
Not that this was a super serious relationship, but I never want to give anyone that impression.
So that's how it really ended.
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Well handled. Yeah, good Job.
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. Maybe a year too long. But we eventually got to the.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: You got there, you got there. All right, let's get your opinion on this one, do you think? And this. Everyone has their own opinion on this. Actually, if you're watching us on YouTube, I would love to hear your answer to this in the chat. So put in the comments.
Are we too desensitized to nudity? And when I say we, let's talk about gay culture specifically.
[00:31:35] Speaker B: That is. You know, I've gone back and forth with this as we've been preparing for our little conversation.
I will lean towards yes. Because of how often we are faced with bulge pics, abs, songs, more, you know, and you can do your best to kind of hide those images on Instagram. I know I posted something on the gay Good about how to make social media a more.
A more easy place to navigate, especially if you're struggling with body image. Because a lot of my friends explore pages. It's just Hawkeyes. And I know for me, that was a lot. And I started looking at my own body with a more critical lens.
However, even by removing those, the algorithm still posts and will bump up those type of images. And then if we talk about Twitter, I almost exclusively now use Twitter or X for pornography and for more sexual content.
So these places that you can go for news, for community, for memes are also places that are completely flooded with nudity, queer content, xyz. And, you know, part of that is great that that's there. If that's how you make your money, good for you. Live your best life. But it's. It's a lot at all, at all times. It's hard to escape from it. So I do think there is a little bit of desensitization when it comes to nudity, and maybe that does play a part on why I'm more willing to send these type of photos. As, you know, everyone else around me is sending them, whether it be a onlyfans person on Twitter, whether it be one of my friends that's sharing a more risque close friend story, whether it be a friend that's, you know, showing me his Grindr account or, you know, whatever it is. But it's. It's pretty constant.
So I think it's definitely desensitized me a bit to sharing NSFW content in nudes.
[00:33:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting.
One of the reasons why we have that rule in the Gay Men's Brotherhood Facebook group, the. One of the rules is no shirtless photos or obviously no nudes is not because we're like sex negative and shameful and all that. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm naked most of the time. I have no problem sharing it at all. But what we found is with respect to community and game and wanting to connect with each other, it does get in the way sometimes. And I think we lose a lot of potential connection when we see people first and foremost as. Or their bodies or as sexual objects. That doesn't mean. I'm saying there's anything wrong with sex. It just means I think it gets in the way of what people truly want sometimes, which is that friendship, camaraderie, connection, conversations. Right. So that's why we have that. That community, that. That role within our community there personally.
Yes. Distraction. Oh, my gosh. Exactly. And we lose. We lose so much opportunity there. For me personally, I. Very similar to you. I do love it. I feel very empowered by it. I get off on it. I get off on sharing and receiving. I like. I like. I like the validation that comes with it, obviously. But one of my rules is I don't necessarily. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't send anyone something that I don't know who it is or I haven't already had some kind of chat with them. Like, there are forums like, let's say Twitter or OnlyFans, where you can put your stuff out there for all to see, but you don't know who's consuming it. I like to know who is on the other end of it. That's my. If that's my only thing. I just want to know who's watching this or who's seeing this.
[00:35:20] Speaker B: Now I'm completely with you on that. This might be a little too tmi. I hope my mother is not listening to this. Shout out to Claudia, wherever you are. Sweet soul. But I have gotten into a place where I like taking more intimate pictures and videos when, you know, playing with someone. And I'll send those maybe to a friend or maybe send it to that person. But very much like you, whether it's me, whether it's me engaging in some act, I like to know who I'm sending this to. And they know I don't want this shared with anyone else. This is just for you. This is something between us.
Whether they send something back or not, that's our business.
And, you know, I've thought of the whole only fans career and. But it just doesn't call to me. I don't like the anonymity of it. I also agree with, like, the validation and the. The fun of it. Being a part of it, being within a certain relationship with someone that you hopefully care about and get to enjoy this with.
Feel like I might be rambling just a little bit, but when it comes to sharing those more X rated contents, I definitely only share that to people where there's a trust and a respect and a solid foundation in that that will never be on Grindr. To someone that I've only had six or seven messages with, they all just get, you know, the tip of the iceberg.
[00:36:55] Speaker A: Just the pics.
[00:36:56] Speaker B: Just the pics.
[00:36:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I get you.
Let's talk about then, how it impacts how sharing these photos impacts how a relationship might unfold.
Tell me, what do you think? Does it impact it at all?
[00:37:11] Speaker B: I think yes. Each relationship is different, so it's kind of difficult to discuss because again, each relationship is a. Is a singular one with different expectations, different needs.
But I do definitely think adding a sexual component, whether that's in person, whether that's video, audio, whatever it is, will alter the relationship.
But again, hard to discuss because what are. What are we looking for here in.
I'd say almost all of those relationships, I'm not looking for anything serious with these guys.
It's more just like having fun and acknowledging the fact that we're like sexual people who have an attraction, whether there's a long distance at play, whether I just don't see something profound with them. I still think it can be fun to introduce this and a sub view content into a relationship. Whether it's friends, friends with benefits, someone you're seeing.
It definitely does change the game, though.
[00:38:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
I'll tell you a little experiment I did maybe four years ago when I was single, just for fun. I just was like, I'm gonna see what happens here. I was treading on Grindr and I was like, I'm going to. With five people that I like. I'm not going to send nudes. I'm just gonna like, flirt and whatnot, but not send nudes. And then with five of them, I will and just see what happens. This is not a scientific experiment, everyone. I'm not saying that it is at all. Pepper's right. This is all very highly individual, but this is just what I'm. What would happen with me. So the ones that I didn't. What tended to happen was those conversations went longer and further. We got off the app, we exchanged WhatsApps or whatever. We just talked for a longer period of time before we actually met. And when we did meet, I didn't meet all of them, but the Ones that I did meet, it was for a date, we went out for dinner, we did something like that, but we just went deeper and I just said, oh no, I'm not. I don't share news. Whatever. I didn't. I just gave them my reason and that was it. And they were all okay with it. With the ones that I did share the newts, we tended to have a quick little sexed session. Most of the time it was reciprocated and the conversation obviously went clearly into sex pretty much right away. And the ones I did meet, again, I didn't meet all of them, but the ones I did meet was only for a hookup and not for the day.
Now that's just five and five.
That's not a good sample size, but I thought that was very interesting. What it told me was if I wanted to go deeper with people and what I wanted was something maybe more like a dating or long term connection or friend even, it was probably in my best interest not to share my nudes. And when I did share my nudes, it became sexual very quickly. And I was sexualized, which is fine, that's what I wanted. And I sexualized them, which is fine because that's what they wanted. But it didn't, in, in my, in those examples, it didn't. Once that happened, that was kind of the end of it. I was like, okay, cool. You said I would have a nice one.
[00:40:22] Speaker B: Yeah, well that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing that. But you know, it's not, I don't find that particularly surprising. I think the conversations I had on, let's say less racy dating apps like back when I was on Hinge, it would get more, you know, compassionate conversations, more authentic, really getting to know each other and then actually going on dates. But when within the first five messages on Grindr, you're saying or you're, you're asking like what your turn ons are, that goes back to expectation setting and sort of putting someone in a box of what you want out of this specific.
Yeah, I've definitely learned that myself that if I do see something with someone to take it slower, to potentially wait to become physical.
And that's definitely something I've been practicing as well. Right now I'm not in like a very.
I'm not in a space where I want to date and find, I guess, the one.
But I have learned that once I do find someone that I can potentially see something more profound with, I want to take my time to really get to know this person before becoming Intimate and before potentially making a decision on exclusivity or labels.
Because, you know, as we're, as we're getting to introducing NSFW content definitely changes the expectations of the conversation and potentially the shelf life of the relationship.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
And we are not saying, Pepper and I are not saying here that this is a hard and fast rule. We're not saying that this is the one way to do it. You could have a wonderful, meaningful emotional connection with someone who's you. You see their nudes immediately. That's. That's possible and also can work the other end. That's not what we're saying. We're just kind of sharing our experiences here because I know typically when I talk about this stuff, I get a lot of. I get a lot of nasty people commenting and sending me messages.
So, yes, anything is possible.
You could do it any which way. You can find amazing connections through various sexualized encounters. That's totally doable or not. Right. So the purpose here is figure this out for yourself. What we're advocating for here is know what you want. As always, know exactly what you want and just make sure your actions more or less are aligned to that. And if you don't know, then run that little experiment that I did like, okay, let's see what happens if I do this. Let's see what happens when I don't do that. Just to see how that goes. Because everyone is different and. And there's no hard and fast rules. Yeah.
[00:43:00] Speaker B: That goes back to what you said at the beginning of the, you know, our conversation is this is relatively new and, you know, gay kind and mankind, you know, sending NSW content and the close friend story. So there is no playbook. It's just about what works with you.
And this is what we've found in our journeys. And, you know, I've shared a few areas where I think I've potentially succeeded, where I've misstepped, but all of them are getting me closer to, you know, some type of. What is it getting me closer to? It's getting closer to, you know, an authentic experience with how I share my body physically or through these little apps that we connect on.
[00:43:47] Speaker A: Yeah.
Let's talk a little bit about the risks.
What are you most afraid of?
[00:43:55] Speaker B: My biggest fear in them is someone I don't want to. Someone that I wouldn't want to see, someone that I wouldn't want to view it viewing me in a very compromising situation. And that goes back to me not setting face very often, only saving those more vulnerable images or videos for People who I trust and trust with a capital T.
I, I don't play with that.
I don't really let things go no matter how forward someone is that's asking for it. But that would definitely be my. My biggest fear is just getting to someone who I definitely don't want to see me in any type of position or act.
And that can be a little scary at times.
And I think it's important when sending and receiving this content to make that clear. Like, hey, if I'm sending you this, I. I really respect and hope that you are keeping this to yourself, or at least not like sharing this with everyone and anyone and adding it to part of, I guess, your content.
[00:45:10] Speaker A: But that happens so often.
[00:45:12] Speaker B: It does.
[00:45:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. Like that stat. I said at the beginning, 75 had found that people either leaked it or had them or shared them with other people that they weren't meant for. So I think your fear is founded, not unfounded.
[00:45:26] Speaker B: And like, something that really actually opened my eyes to this is I'm a big fan of RuPaul's Drag Race, all international franchises as well. And I used to go on the Reddit religiously. And right when the new cast of Girls or the new quest of Queens or participants were announced, sometimes people would be like, well, here's a master list of delete their nudes that were. Have been leaked. So it just goes to show you how many people are holding on to.
[00:45:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:45:54] Speaker B: And yeah, that was super eye opening to me. But has it stopped me? No, not necessarily. You know, one day it might come back to, like, bite me in the ass, but I can't, like, live in fear of that. Or like, I, I myself am choosing not to live in fear of that.
[00:46:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
Do you.
Who might those people be when you say, get into the hands of people? I don't want to see it. Like, what are these general groups of people that you wouldn't want to see?
[00:46:25] Speaker B: I would say, like co workers, family.
You know, I, I'm pretty open person, but I like to keep my more sexual personality and identity separate from the professional.
Or, you know, I also care a lot about LGBT youth.
It's a population I talk to and on behalf of and like, in support of often.
And although I think it's perfectly fine to care a great deal about LGBT children and teens growing up and to have this side of you, I wouldn't want that ever being mixed, especially because we're already dangerously labeled as groomers and, and predators by people that don't support our community and want to demonize you know, our existence.
So there's a part of me that cares deeply about the youth and there's a part of me that likes to have my fun in the nighttime and, you know, share photos and be intimate with people.
But I know there's a strong divide between the two.
However, I know that someone potentially with malicious intent could go and, you know, try to create something ugly or something dark and try to connect those dots in a ways that I would never connect.
[00:47:51] Speaker A: Yeah, speaking of you, you brought up something that I want to talk about. Speaking of having divides, I know that you have the gay good and then you also have a personal right.
Do you worry about people seeing something like an NSFW photo and then it kind of diminishing your reputation on your more professional or your content creating account?
[00:48:18] Speaker B: To an extent, yes. That's a great question.
But I also completely own the fact that, you know, I'm a sexual being. I'm a proud gay man.
I'm not ashamed of that.
Someone actually recognized me once on Grindr. He was like, oh, aren't you the good. The gay good. What are you doing here? I'm like, the gay good trying to find some good dick. Like, what do you mean?
Have every right to be here.
[00:48:44] Speaker A: Right?
[00:48:45] Speaker B: So, but yeah, that definitely comes into play and we see so many artists or content creators, activists have something pulled up and yeah, that's a fear of mine. But I also stand in the fact that, you know, I have the. A right to be a sexual person and to explore everything and anything it is that turns me on or gives me pleasure.
And I, I don't see anything wrong with that.
[00:49:16] Speaker A: Yes. Amen, sis.
I love that because when my business started taking off, so I have similar to you, I have a coaching profile and then my personal one, you know, both.
So. But when my business started taking off and the podcast started taking off, one of the things that I talked with my partner is like, oh, boy. Like, I have a lot of out there. And I mean, I go to new beach, I go to bath houses, I do all this stuff. And my sentiment, I'm on Grindr. And my sentiment was exactly what you said. I'm like, yeah, I'm a gay man. Like, what else makes me more relatable than those experiences? I can say to people like, yeah, I get it because I'm in it, I know it.
And the other thing I thought of was like, so what? So what? So they, so they see the sexual side of me. A. They realize I'm a human. They realize I have A sex life. They realize I'm a human gay man. And also what really hit me in a business sense is the people who don't want to work with me because of that, they're not my people.
They're never gonna work with me. Right. They can go with somebody else. There's like a thousand coaches out there, but the ones that do wanna work with me will be like, oh, cool, this guy gets it. He's in it. He knows it's gonna make me more relatable. So I think that's part of that being authentic piece is like, this is who I am. Take it or leave it. Right? Like, yes, I do these things. Yes, I have that sexual side. I'm not gonna hide it. That kind of goes against what I believe in. Now, I do have boundaries around my nudes, which I shared with you guys. But that doesn't mean that I'm ashamed of it. It just means this is not something I'm willing to share with people unless they're kind of in my.
They've proved themselves to me and I get to decide that criteria because it's my body and my photos. Yeah.
[00:50:55] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:50:56] Speaker A: Yeah. Good job. Okay, let's. We're almost at the end here. Let's leave our amazing audience with some do's and don'ts. Best practices for sending or rece. What do you got for us?
[00:51:07] Speaker B: I would say a big do, especially when it comes to close friend stories, is asking for consent.
I have a close friend story. Sometimes things get a little risque. Not often. In fact, this week I was just asking my friends, like, who they use for car insurance because I'm shopping around making some cost to progressive this week.
However, sometimes we do post like a little booty pic or like a mirror pick when the light is hitting.
However, with close friend stories, you. You don't really have a say.
Sometimes you're just added to one and you don't opt to it. And sometimes someone will add me and I'm like, we're not close friends. We're not friends. Like, why? Why am I here?
But for my close friend stories, every, I'd say three or four months, I'll do like a little poll, like consent check. Like, hey, do you still want to be on this list?
This is probably what I'll be sharing.
Mostly it's rants, just random stuff about my day, things I find funny. But sometimes it is a little NSFW moment and it allows my close friends to say, yeah, I still want to be here and engage with this. I'M totally here for this little inner circle moment. But if someone's like, no, I don't want to be here, then, you know, I gave them a chance to kind of opt out, and I will then go in and remove them because I would never want to include someone or share something for someone that isn't looking to receive that from me. So I think asking for consent on the close friend story is important.
[00:52:41] Speaker A: Great, great. 1.
Do you use a close friend story on your gay good or only on your personal?
[00:52:46] Speaker B: I only have one on the personal.
[00:52:48] Speaker A: Yeah, same. Okay, cool.
All right. What other. What other best practices do's and don'ts.
[00:52:55] Speaker B: Best practice, I would say do hide them on your phone. Don't just have them out in, like, your everyday photos.
I mean, hey, I mean, it can be hard to organize, but there are secret folders that you can build yourself on your. Your images, and there's also apps that you can use. I've been using the same app for years. I do not know the name of it, but just type in secret folder on the App Store. And that's where I keep anything super explicit. You have to have a passcode. And if you get it wrong, I think twice. It takes a screen, a little selfie of whoever's on the phone, which I love. So I could see who's trying to break into the vault.
But no one's ever done that. So I've just. That has been there for years and no one has tried to break into the vault. But I think it's important because if you're handing your phone to, let's say, a colleague or a friend, and, you know, you scroll too far, they hit the wrong button, and next thing you know, your dick is in someone's mouth. You know.
[00:54:00] Speaker A: I don't do any of that. So if anyone found my phone, it'd be kind of like. But my mentality is. What you had said is like, enjoy. Like, you're welcome. Like, if someone finds my phone and goes through the photos, it's like, yeah, it's a lot of. A lot of juicy photos of me. I don't. I don't save photos of other people on my phone, which I think is another best practice. Like, don't save other people's photos unless they've given you explicit permission to do so.
[00:54:24] Speaker B: Absolutely. I'd say one of my big don'ts. And maybe the last one is. And this goes back to me, something I've learned is don't tease people with the photos. If you have no interest in seeing someone don't lead them on with either a conversation or a photo.
Photo. Like you said, you might want to rub one out before bed. And we get that. But as we talked about on the the Grinder conversation, I have to remember I'm speaking to another human being who just lived there full day. And if I want to just, you know, get to business and get to bed, there's plenty of websites and other content I can be using other than potentially wasting someone's time and leading them on.
[00:55:06] Speaker A: Great one. Yeah.
Okay. Some that I had that we already talked about a little bit, we talked about consent. You had said this earlier is establishing a code of trust with the person before you do it and then making sure you set your expectations. Like, you know, here's what, here's my expectation for privacy. I'm expecting that you're not going to send this to other people or show this to your friends.
And I've been there, I've seen in bars, people like, oh, hey, look at this guy. Blah, blah, blah. And like, I'm like, what is happening? Like, I'm pretty sure that guy did not give you permission to do that. That. But it happens so often.
Some other tips, common sense things, practical things. If you're really concerned about it, don't show your face.
If you've got tattoos or anything that's going to identify you. Jewelry, my ring is in a lot of my photos.
Then just realize people are going to be able to identify you based on a tattoo or something like that. So you can always cut off your face and find fun and fun ways to angle yourself so it's not that identifiable.
What else? On things like Snapchat or Instagram or even WhatsApp, you can send disappearing photos, which is super cool, or you can just send it and then it.
Once it's done, it's done. And the photo people can't save it.
And that's a nice little feature that they've built in over there on Grindr. Something I do regularly is I kind of go through and I stop sharing my album, like maybe once a week. I'm just like, okay, you've had your fun. I'm not sharing this album anymore. And that kind of helps me make sure that these people who I sent the album to and are just going back to it, back to do what they got to do with it. They're going to reengage with me and ask again or just meet me.
And then, of course, like we had talked about, don't save people's photos unless they've Given you permission to.
[00:56:45] Speaker B: Don't do that.
Don't do that.
[00:56:49] Speaker A: All right. Anything else you want to add, Pepper?
[00:56:53] Speaker B: Live your best lives out there. You know, be, be careful. But also, like, be true to yourself.
[00:56:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:00] Speaker B: And that might be kind of a cliche thing to say when we're talking about nudes, but I've come definitely a long way and how I view myself and my motivations for why I'm sending a photo or a video than, you know, 22 year old me was.
And I definitely think it's, it's taught me a lot.
And you can, you can have a lot of fun. And you can also have a lot of fun while still having integrity. Not sharing those, not disrespecting yourself, not giving in to requests when you don't want to.
Like, there's a. There's. You can reclaim a lot of your, I guess, autonomy.
[00:57:43] Speaker A: Yes.
I love all that. And I think one of those things is maybe this kind of goes back to a don't. Or maybe a risk is notice if you are clinging on to the feelings you get from sharing them. If you're getting all of your validation, all of your sense of worth from that, just, just be mindful of that. You want to balance that out. Not that it's. Again, not that it's bad, but just want to balance that out with other things. Right.
A lot of people will, will kind of go down that rabbit hole where they will only see themselves. They'll only see their worthiness based on their appearance. And this leads to a whole bunch of issues.
Insecurity, self esteem, fear of aging, fear of getting old, just being, you know, needing other people to validate you and approve of you. Like, it's just a whole slew of issues. So, yeah, do it, like Pepper said, with integrity, with fun. It could be a very playful thing. That's what it is for me. There's nothing wrong with it. It's a beautiful thing. Your body, your choice. Share it with the people who want to see it. But no, not the other ones.
[00:58:44] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:58:46] Speaker A: All right, Pepper, this has been great. Where can people find you if they want to connect with you?
[00:58:50] Speaker B: You can find me at the gategood on Instagram, my personal account, if you ever want to DM me there or get to know my more everyday routine is on Pepper. Underscore, underscore time on Instagram.
And Instagram is usually where you can find me and reach me. So, yeah, those are my two platforms.
[00:59:10] Speaker A: Awesome. I'll put all that in the show.
[00:59:11] Speaker B: Notes and I'm sure You'll see me again on here.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: Yes, of course. We got lots of, we got lots of good ideas coming up.
All right. To our viewers and listeners, thank you for spending this hour with us. We appreciate you being here. If you enjoyed what you're hearing today, please give us a five star rating on whatever podcast platform you're listening to us to on. And if you're watching us on YouTube, please make sure you subscribe and leave us some comments. Tell us what you thought of the episode. Share with us your own tips.
We will be looking at these and replying. And join us in the Gay Men's Brotherhood Facebook group where we do not send nudes, but we have great conversations about personal development, mental health and sexuality. And the last Thursday of every month, we have a free zoom call where we talk about a lot of really awesome and important topics.
All right, that's all we've got for you guys today. Have a wonderful rest of the day and have a good one. Bye. Bye.
Bye.
