[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hello everybody. Welcome to Gaming Going Deeper a podcast series by the Gay Men's Brotherhood where we talk about all things personal development, mental health and sexuality. Today your hosts are Matt Lanzadel, Michael Diorio and myself, Callum Brecken. And collectively we have over 40 years of experience in the personal development world and if this is your first time listening to us, we want to welcome you. We each have our own coaching practices, but in this podcast we are sharing all of our best stuff. Today we are going to be talking about my last episode with Gay Men Going Deeper. We're going to be reflecting on my journey here with the Gaming Going Deeper podcast and everything that we do and what the future might hold.
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[00:01:25] Speaker B: You can.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: You can learn how to heal and empower yourself at your own pace by getting instant access to over 45 premium personal development coaching videos created by us as well as our healing your shame and building better relationships courses. Head on over to gayman goingdeeper.com for more information.
So before we jump into today's episode, I want to read out a review from one of our listeners. And this is a new one that came in from Canada. It was on our Canada Apple podcast page and it says the right time for five stars. I discovered this podcast shortly after ending an eight year relationship in December. It's so refreshing to hear all to hear you all speak about topics I feel are rarely openly discussed in the community. Thank you for sharing your personal connections to the topics. It makes it that much easier to reflect on my own connection. I look forward to each new podcast episode. You are all doing such important work and you couldn't have come into my life at a better time. And that is from CB in Canada.
Oh well thank you so much C. That's fantastic.
All right, so as all the listeners are surely like, excuse you, what's happening? What's going on. What?
Yes. This is going to be my last episode at the Gay Men Going Deeper podcast.
It's been in the works for a little while now.
And just to explain to everybody, we always talk about on this podcast about being authentic to yourself and about, you know, following your path, learning about what's true for you, and doing all these things.
And so slowly, over time, I've started to feel like an imposter because these things weren't necessarily aligning anymore to what I really love doing. And what I've learned is kind of my sweet spot in life.
And so when that started happening, you know, probably maybe around a year ago, a little bit less possibly, I said, you know what, let's just keep going. Let's just see. Maybe I just need to, like, you know, maybe it's like a relationship. Sometimes you have a slump and, you know, you go back up. And so I just gave it a lot, a lot of time just to figure out for myself to see, like, what was really, really going.
Then in the new year, in 2023, I made it my year of fear, as everybody will remember the year of fear. And I promised myself that I would do things that scared me. And so a lot of that had to do with, you know, my business and where I was going and what I was working on.
And I came to the space where I really did sit with this for a long time, and I went, for me, right now, it's no longer in alignment. And in order for the podcast and everything to continue being successful, the energy I bring no longer matches that. And so I wanted to make sure that I was opening up that space for others who did align to that. And so, you know, because energy, you can feel energy. And so with all of this going on in. In the new year, I decided to talk to Matt and Michael and let them know where my head was at and what was going on. And so we've been very conscious about this whole process about, you know, how we're going to do everything and how it's all working out. But today we are officially filming the video, letting you all know in the community that I'll be stepping away. But it's all in positiveness. It's all in goodness. Like, I'm going to continue to support the community. I'm going to continue to support in the ways that I can. It's just my path is kind of diverging into a different space because, as you all know, if you listen to the podcast, I love tech. I love kind of being in the background and figuring out businesses and how to work businesses and how to help businesses.
And that's just where my sweet spot is. And Matt and Michael saw that ages ago.
And so it was kind of like a natural progression of things. So that's where I am at in regards to what's going on today.
So how about we start off with. There's a couple of things we're going to kind of unpack today.
Um, but we're going to just be looking and, like, reflecting on a lot of the good times, a lot of our favorite moments, what we've learned over the years, and kind of go from there. So reflecting on the good times, does one of you guys want to start off?
[00:06:01] Speaker B: I don't even know where to start. I mean, we did not prepare for it for this particular episode. Right. So I think it's.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: It's.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: This is a Kind of a fun one. Oddly enough, for our last one, this might be the first one that we had no idea what we're going to be talking about going in. Besides maybe you, Callan. So to answer your question, nothing comes to mind right off of. Right off the bat. But I will say, the feeling I get, like, there's an overall feeling I get when I think of doing these, which is one of warmth, a lot of stimulation intellectually, and a lot of laughs, especially from you, Callan. Like, you. You're really good at injecting humor and making us laugh with your bubbly personality, at least. Making me laugh, for sure. I'll never forget the time you swallowed a fly.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Oh, my God, I did.
[00:06:51] Speaker B: Yeah. That was one of my favorites. You're, like, talking, saying something beautifully eloquent, and then it's like, sorry, I swallowed a fly. That might be.
[00:06:58] Speaker C: And you got a fly in your eye, like, two episodes ago. So the flies apparently love you.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: I totally forgot about. That was a good episode.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. I think just fun and warmth and laugh. And I think I'm. I'm definitely gonna miss that for one. And I'm sure the listeners are as well.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Thanks, Michael. Thanks for that laugh and that reminder. I had completely forgotten about that episode, but now that you said it, I was like, oh, yeah, that did happen. That was early on, wasn't it?
[00:07:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: That was pretty early.
[00:07:26] Speaker C: That was about a year ago, I think.
[00:07:30] Speaker A: And what about.
[00:07:34] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm trying to think. We. So we used to do episodes where we would just wouldn't plan anything. That's how we started this. Right. We didn't have questions, so it's kind of bringing me back to just kind of more authentic relating and what comes up for me in the moment. I think.
Yeah, I. Well, I think one of my favorite episodes was Inside Out.
I've watched. I usually watch a lot of them back. I do like the quotes for them as well and stuff like that, so I'll usually watch them back. And for some reason, I feel like that was kind of like a.
A point where things started to shift for us. And I think there was. It was around that time that I think a lot of us were. The three of us were going through a lot of growth, and something shifted at that episode, and we started to, you know, conduct ourselves with more maturity, and I felt like we were coming more into alignment to ourselves and our vision.
So, yeah, I feel like that.
Where. Where I kind of, you know, want to take this for myself is just the amount of growth that you and I have stimulated in each other. Callan. I think that's been more my experience. Like, I kind of really look at our relationship as one of very karmic. Our relationship is very karmic. I think we.
We came together to help each other grow in really challenging yet beautiful ways, I think. And I think we mirrored to each other a lot of things that we needed to see that maybe we were our blind spots or things that we were too afraid to face in ourselves. And I think we.
We essentially forced each other to face those things in ourselves. And I think, at least that's how I perceive it. I don't want to speak for you, but I'll speak from.
From my perception.
And I just think in the last three years, I've had, like, a tremendous amount of growth from just. Even just experiencing your energy, being around you, experiencing how you show up in life in. In both the beautiful ways and the challenging ways. I think they've. They've really helped me see the parts of myself that I think I've needed to learn how to love. And I think you and I, we do have very similar upbringings, and I think we have very similar core wounding. And the way we show up in the world from that seems similar to me, and I think that was the things I needed to see. So, you know, I go back to when we first met, and I was on your podcast, discovering your truth podcast. That was three and a half years. No, four years ago.
Yeah, because I left. I left to Asia for three years or for a year, and then came back, and it's been almost three years now. Yeah, three years.
[00:10:20] Speaker A: Is that before you went to Asia? Or.
[00:10:22] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that was about.
That was about six months before I left for Asia, and then I was in Asia for a year and then I came back and then started the brotherhood right away.
June 6th. So this June 6th will be three years. So that was like almost four, four and a half years ago that we, that we first connected. And it's. It's crazy thinking back on like, where I was energetically at that time and just how I thought that I had done a lot of work on myself and I was like, oh, yeah. You know, and. But I really, it was. I didn't even know the tip of what I was about to deal with in the. The following four and a half years. And.
Yeah, and I remember when, you know, I was sitting there kind of in quarantine creating the graphics for this brotherhood that I wanted to create, and I was like thinking about the people and like, you were the first person that came to my mind. And I firmly believe that the universe brings the people into our lives that we need in order to create our vision and live our sole purpose, meet our destiny, whatever you want to call it. And you're definitely one of those people. You've been. You've helped me grow tremendously. So that's more the fondness that I, that I recall, but I do second what Michael said about your. You inject humor into. Into this dynamic. So we're going to need to find somebody that can replace that because I don't often bring a lot of humor. I'm more the serious guy. I bring a lot of my.
That nature into. Into this work. So.
[00:11:59] Speaker A: But yeah, so, yeah, almost happy. It's our. It's the beginning of the episode. I'm already getting teary eyed. Oh, that. That was beautiful. Thank you for that, Matt.
Yeah, it is kind of crazy to think back how that podcast episode that I originally did, I think I only ever had like maybe 20 episodes. But like, I remember watching your YouTube video about the gay community and be like, oh, we need to talk about this. And then that's when I reached out and I was like, hey, let's have a conversation. And then in that conversation, I don' if it was in the podcast recording, but afterwards I think you brought up that you wanted to kind of create this community and this idea. And I was like, oh, that's cool. And then like, I just kind of like, you know, it's like, oh, well, he'll figure it out. And then like, you know, however long later you just message, you're like, by the way, I did the thing.
And I want you to. I want you to meet this guy Michael.
[00:12:54] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: And I was like, okay.
And at the time, also, Rena was involved in that.
[00:13:01] Speaker C: Reno came in a bit after, so I think we. We started. We were operating for about. Well, I operated for about a month and then you guys came in. And then we operated for a couple months and then Reno came in. Yeah, I was kind of. I was timelining all of this. So he was in at about the four month mark. So we did have a bit of time. But before we did, he was on the podcast since day one. Right?
[00:13:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we didn't start the podcast until later. Like, that was like a. You know, what things are we gonna do to. To support this community and to, like, bring, you know, voice to these things that we want to talk about. And because of the pandemic, we didn't have the option of like, well, also, Matt, you were, you know, on the west coast, so it's like, we didn't have the option to, like, get together to do a lot of this stuff. Because early on, I remember you really want to do like the in person circles and the hangouts and like, that's great. But, like, we literally were not allowed to do that for like two years.
So we're like, okay, well, in lieu of that. And that's why, like, the. The group Zoom started.
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: Because it was like, well, how do we bring people together? How do we, you know, nurture this community that we're building?
So, yeah, that was. Yeah, that is a lot. And, man, we do have a lot of stuff. Like, your. Our relationship together has triggered me so much.
[00:14:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:14:19] Speaker A: But like, in all the best ways. Because, like, I get pissed off and then I like, turn around. I go, no, no, this is not what healthy people do. We gotta love. Okay, what's going on here? Let's unpack my stuff. And then I get to the deeper things. I'm like, okay, yeah, I see what's going on. Like, I could see. And then. But those first few times that we met, one on one, when like, something was said or something happened, and we're both like, oh, we need to talk about this. That, like, those were the scariest moments for me because it was so early on that those foundations hadn't been built. So it was just like, well, how's this gonna go? And my history was just like, well, this is the cut and cut and piece out. That's what happens here. But then us sticking with it and going through it really showed me relationships that I'd never really experienced before. I mean, I have, but not in that kind of way where people really come together and really unpack something. And it's like, okay, we need to talk about this.
And like, we have grown immensely. Huge growth. If I went back and listened to those first episodes, I'd probably be like, what?
[00:15:24] Speaker C: What?
[00:15:25] Speaker A: But it's good. I think it's good, especially if new people are listening now, to go back, because then their journey can also, like, grow with our journey.
So it's definitely been a wild ride over, over the last couple of years. And to think, like, how it all started, like, so, you know, and that's how everything starts. Like, it all's just an idea. And then one person takes one step and then another step and then another step. And that's, you know, kind of what we do here on the podcast and what we do in the communities. It's like everybody's on a journey and it's gonna take time. And you can't fast forward it and you can't fast track it. You have to go through it. And it's kind of like the choice of either acknowledging it and making those choices actively and consciously along the way, or throwing it up to chance and letting your emotions run your life and just being like, things just happened to me. It's like, yes, but, you know, how do you take those things? How do you shift those things in your life so that that doesn't continue to happen, so that you can have a more, you know, enjoyable experience that isn't full of so much waves and ups and downs. Like, there's going to be ups and downs, but it doesn't have to be a chronic constant up in the down kind of.
[00:16:38] Speaker C: Yeah, I want to say something because what you said earlier, I think like speaking to our relationship and like Michael and I, like, I think all of us, we've had dynamic where we've helped each other grow, like, tremendous.
But it was just probably more potent with you, Callan. But I think one of the things that I've seen in myself is like, I came into this egoically. I didn't want to do it, to be honest with you guys. My soul was like pushing me very, very aggressively. Like, this is what you need to do. But my ego didn't trust. I didn't trust gay men at all. I've had bad experiences with gay men. I didn't want to bring because I had never. I had never done co creative work before. I've never brought in my livelihood into co creation with Somebody where then they're. The choices they make, how they show up in the world impacts me. Right? And that was a big, big struggle for me in the early stages of working with you guys because I was very still navigating the people pleasing stuff, being overly concerned about my image and perception. And I was really. It was a lot for me to surrender and go that these new people are like, their work is now coming in and influencing how I like how. How I'm seen in the world, right. And I didn't trust you guys at that time. So there was a really big part of this, this, like, business and I guess our. Our dynamic that was really challenging me to trust, to surrender, to let go.
And that was like, not something I knew or did. Like, I was very controlling. I. When we first started this, I was more of a manager in mentality than I was a leader. And I think being in this, this community for the last three years has really taught me leadership and how to, like, when to put my hands on the wheel and when to take my hands off the wheel. And I think that's, you know, a gift that I can attribute to our connection. Callum. Because I think we both came in wanting to have our hands on the wheel and we had to learn how to let other people take the wheel at times and not be in that energy. And I think that was where we butted heads, was that energy. But then there's this, this energy of like, you know, my ego was triggered, but my soul knew that this is exactly what it needed. So that's why it really is a gift. And it allowed me to soften, like, come back into, like, out of the ego mentality, come back into the soul centered, loving place and make those realizations.
So, yeah, it was, it was pretty, pretty big stuff. I'm curious, do you guys want to go and around and maybe share, like, how we have seen growth in each other? Like, what are some growth points that we've seen in each other? Because I feel like we really are mirrors for each other and I think we've. We've helped each other understand ourselves.
I'd love to hear both if you want to share. Like, how do you. How do you think you've changed, but also how do you think we have changed as people since you've been working with us?
[00:19:41] Speaker A: For sure. Okay, cool. Well, I mean, you kind of definitely hit the nail on the head with, you know, yourself of like, when you did come in, you acknowledged those things of like, you, you were living that. Of like, how is this gonna happen. How is this gonna work out? And I think both of us were kind of in that space for sure, because I was the same. I was like, I don't know how this is gonna work, but okay.
And then throw in the community in there and how wild the community was when we first started, like, the attacks and the, like, how dare use. And, like, all the energy that came from the community when it was still trying to learn how to get its footing was like, that was a wild adventure in and of itself, which I'm very grateful that in the community, speaking to the community, seeing that maturity as well within the community and the gay men's brotherhood, because the Facebook group is definitely a lot more mature than it was before. Like, of course there's always going to be stuff. It's Facebook. It's, you know, it's the. It's online.
But compared to the beginning, compared to now is, like, wildly different. And I think that maturity also, you know, is reflective of us and how we've led in the community. Like, how we. We did all those things.
But, yeah, going to. You mad? Definitely. I saw that shift of, like, the control of, like, needing to make sure that everything's done a specific way and then. But I'm the same. And so us both having to balance that with each other and, like, okay, well, what. What can I let go here a little bit? And where do we, you know, each one of us really know our things and what's going on. And, like, finding that balance between us has definitely, like, helped me relationally, not just our relationship, but I know in future relationships moving forward, that it's helped me and informed me of those of, like, that is part of life. It's. Life is a balance of the relationships. Life is a balance of, you know, it's not just your way all the time, but when you're single for so long or when you, like, you know, entrepreneur for so long, you kind of get stuck in your own world of, like, wait, hopefully, wait, hold the phone. So this has actually been really great, especially on that entrepreneurial journey, because it still kept us in that space where we didn't fall into those holes too deeply. Like, we could still always have these relationships to be like, okay, I know still how to work with people, and not just, like, put your foot down and be like, this is the way that it's going to happen.
But I've seen huge growth in you in that regard and, like, holding space, like, being able to come into a space, even if, like, it's an uncomfortable conversation or Whatever. And just, like, really holding the space and, like, grounding it in, like, love and support. Because there's always going to be the ups and downs. There's always going to be kind of, like, touchy subjects, but you really make such a conscious effort to really make sure that it's going to be grounded as much in love as possible.
And, like, you know, things can get hairy, but at the end of the day, let's just remember to kind of ground ourselves in this area and in this space. And you do really good job at leading that, and I do love that.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:22:56] Speaker A: And Michael.
Michael. How have I seen Michael? I think a lot of your growth has been secret behind the scenes. I don't know why, but, like, because I'll hear what you say about, like, you get nervous when we do these podcasts and all these. And like, at the beginning, you correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like at the beginning you thought that you were behind a step because you were just starting your coaching practice. You were just starting a lot of this stuff, and so you felt like you, like, needed to catch up or like you were holding certain levels. And you would mention it in podcasts. Still, throughout the years of being, like, I still get super nervous about this, but you've never really shown, shown that. But like, seeing your growth and your confidence in that regard of, like, stepping up to it and be like, I deserve to be here just as much as anybody else deserves to be here, because you do and, like, really stepping into the roles that, like, we've all stepped into here and stepping up to the plate, leading a lot of the group zooms in the membership and like, taking lead and a lot of those social interactions, because that's where I struggle is like the social one on one interactions and in our group zooms, when we, when I was doing the group zooms with you, just, like watching you kind of stand and just be that leader that I'm like, he is. That is who he is. I don't know what he's thinking. Like, he's. He's the guy.
And seeing that has been really great and magical. And just having you and Star, of course, as part of my community here in Toronto has been huge. I know that you guys have been there for me when I went through some, you know, really hard moments in my life with my mom and other stuff. And so that was really important to me. And then also seeing, like, I remember when Starr came into your life and how we were just like, me and Matt were just like, Wait, what? Like, all of a sudden, he was just, like, in the zoom, and, like, you guys had been living together, and we're like, wait, you've been living together
[00:24:53] Speaker C: for, like, three months?
[00:24:55] Speaker B: Covid was a strange time. Okay?
[00:24:57] Speaker A: It was a strange time. And to see that you're still together and that, like, that relationship continues to grow and blossom and is so beautiful. And, like, I get to see Star now on Monday nights outside of the relationship, and, like, his person and his personality and his energy that he brings, and just watching that is really beautiful because they having, like, stable gay relationships that are the way that they want to do it. Like, because you and Star have your relationship and you do it the way that you guys want to do it really inspires me as a person to look for that, you know, whenever that person comes into my life, that. That's like. I'm like, okay, that's. That's where I want to get, is over there, what they got going on.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: So, yeah, that means a lot to me. Thank you so much.
Yeah, that's. That's that. I'm. I'm touched. I don't think you've ever expressed that to me before, so that's very nice.
To answer your question earlier, yeah, that's exactly where I was at. I was suffering at the beginning of our podcasts and at the very beginning of the community super imposter syndrome. Like, I. To the degree I was like, no, you guys got the wrong guy. Like, you must think I'm somebody else, because this is not my thing.
But similar to what Matt had said about being a soul calling, that's exactly how I felt. Like, all of the rational parts of my mind were like, no. But there was something that was like, this is a heavy yes. Like an absolute yes.
So, I mean, yes, that. That I think, has been my growth. And thank you for reflecting that, because it still is. I still get nervous even to this day, doing group zooms, doing this.
It's nice to see that people don't see it, but it's there, no less.
But I have, you know, you guys to thank for that as well, because you have, first of all, allowed me to surface those feelings from the very beginning. The imposter syndrome, the not enoughness, the perfectionism, the nerves. Even before we do these, we do have a little breathing time. And you.
You guys have been really good both for holding space and kind of pumping me up when I need it.
So I have you to thank for that. And also by leading by example. Right? Like, you know, Callan, you Seem you pop on these things and you can just go like, you. You just seem to have it ready to go. And I'm like, how the hell does he do that? Like, you just pull shit out of your ass. And it's good and it's fun.
[00:27:20] Speaker A: Butt plugs, dildos, good vibes, energy, all of it.
[00:27:25] Speaker B: You could do it. And so I'm like, okay, cool. Like this. You lead by example. And it kind of helps me.
It reminds me again, not to take. Not to take it so seriously because you have fun with it. And so that has been a big learning that I've. That you've given me, whether you know it or not. It's like, hey, you know, I don't need to think so hard about this. I just need to show up and have some fun. I know what I'm talking about. I don't need to, like, overly prepare anything. I do like to have a little bit of preparation for myself in my own brain. But, yeah, that's been. That's been really good. And you guys have both helped me grow, as we all have, I'm sure. But in my way, I think it's letting me be at the table, letting me be here, reminding me that I deserve to be here just as much as anybody. So, yeah, I think that I want to thank you for that, specifically.
Thanks.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: I feel so morbid, fuzzy.
[00:28:15] Speaker B: So am I. Am I sharing how I've seen growth in you guys as well?
[00:28:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. And then I'll go after. Because I think.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: Okay, okay.
Yeah, I think because both of you, you just talked about this. I've came in with the same kind of energy, like that. Same kind of masculine, you know, like, hands in the clay energy. And I came in with the exact opposite. I was like, I don't. I don't wanna. Like, it kind of worked in that way. But I think our growth has been balancing that out, so me getting my hands more in it and taking on more of that leadership role. And for you guys, it was kind of softening. And so I think we did get to that point where we have balanced more.
And I have seen that growth with both of you and different ways. Right.
It's kind of been the same. I think this is where you guys are talking about. You guys have a lot of the same kind of core wounding and whatnot. The same journey. I've sensed it on the other side of it because mine's not the same. Mine's sort of the opposite.
But, yeah, like, there's been with Callan, you know, A softening. I think I've mentioned it on other podcasts.
Definitely a softening where you. I don't know what it is. It's just like the wall. The wall has come down, and I find that a lot more, like relatable and approachable and vulnerable, I think is the word I'm looking for. Like, you've really. Like the things that you talk about on this podcast, Colin, like your history, the things you go through, the things you feel.
It's super relatable.
And that is a gift. I think that is a gift you've given this audience over the last 100. And what do we have? 27 episodes.
And that wasn't always there. At the beginning, there was, you know, the wall there. But over time, you've really softened and let people in and been really authentic and vulnerable and really embodied what we're doing here. So that's the growth I've seen in you
[00:30:04] Speaker A: making. Making me cry, trying to make me cry.
Thank you. That's. That makes me feel really, really, really good.
So thank you for sharing that.
Are we all trying not to cry right now? That's what. That's what I feel. I'm like. We're all trying to be like, I gotta keep talking. This is a podcast.
[00:30:31] Speaker B: Yeah. No, there's silence on the listener side. Yeah.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:34] Speaker B: So who's next? Who's next?
[00:30:38] Speaker A: Michael, I think you still gotta share about Matt.
[00:30:41] Speaker B: Oh, yes. So to the same degree, in a different way, I think, with Matt. Yeah, I think Matt, you kind of said it at the beginning already with the energy you came in with was, you know, the managing rather than leading. I definitely, definitely have seen that growth. You two have softened in your own way. It's a little bit different because you. You've always kind of been very good at sharing and being vulnerable, but I think the differences is, like, surrender, I'm gonna say, is maybe where I've seen the change there. Like, instead of controlling, there's been a much more of a surrender, which I think, in that surrender has really allowed your personality and your fun side and your sexy side to shine through. And the mischievous Gemini that I know is in there has really come out a lot more in the last, I'd say, year or so. And so that's been a beautiful thing to see.
[00:31:29] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you.
Thank you. I think that's my innate. My innateness is, like, playful and mischievous and silly, but that somewhere along the way, that got really repressed. So I'm, like, reconnecting with that part of me now. And I think it's scary. It's really scary, actually. Like, the vulnerability in that energy is way more vulnerable for me than sharing, like, my pain and my suffering, because I feel like that's just. I don't know, it's just something about that. So.
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that.
Yeah. I'll start with Callan, because Michael made me think of things.
Definitely the vulnerability would be the word that I would say, like a softening vulnerability, sharing more of yourself. I think in the last year, I felt it more from you, like, just a real.
Like an opening, more of a heart opening, more expressive, like, emotionally. And I think when we first connected, I experienced you more, like, cerebral, like, very. In your head. And now I feel like you're more. You have more connection to your heart. And I feel that. So that. That I do relate with Michael in the sense that it's. I feel, to be you, to be more approachable and.
And relatable. I will say, too, like, the. There's an aspect of flexibility, more flexibility in you than when we first started working together, which is very much appreciated. And I think that was, you know, maybe the. The.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: The.
[00:32:56] Speaker C: Our relationship led us to more humility, because I feel like humility is the energy where we can. We can be more flexible right when we're like, okay, like, it's not always my decision that is going to be the one that. Right. And I met that same energy, too.
[00:33:10] Speaker A: So, yeah, definitely a lot of that. Our relationship, like, and collective the relationship. A lot of that growth came from that. So I owe you guys.
Yeah, that's you guys.
[00:33:22] Speaker C: Yeah.
Yeah.
Mr. Michael.
Yeah, it's. I've seen actually more growth in you in the last six months probably than any other period. But I will say I'll kind of timeline it. So the first. When we first started working together, you're right. I think you and I were very opposite, but we were very compatible opposite. I think you were more passive. I was coming in more assertive, slash aggressive. And we had, like, we. We just kind of synced.
But there was also a part of me that was like, I wanted to see you more, like, assertive and bringing forth, like, your stuff. And you did do a lot of work around, like, healing the imposter syndrome stuff, becoming more assertive and, like, sharing your thoughts and your opinions and seeing the value that those added into our dynamic. And so I think assertiveness is probably one of the bigger things that I've seen in you.
Visibility. That's been a big one. Like, your.
Your visibility before was like, holding on and now, like, you're so eloquent when you talk. Like, whenever you do, like, the monologues and the podcasts and stuff. Like, I feel like, yeah, there's just an eloquence. Like, you speak very well, and I've seen a lot of growth in that. So just, like, I guess comfort of being visible is one. And then I think the biggest growth I've seen in you in the last six months is, like, conviction in your truth. Like, I obviously, I follow you and on your socials and stuff like that, and I see your journey as far as how you represent yourself in that world.
And I just feel like there's kind of more of a fierceness, which is nice, you know, And I got to meet you in Toronto. When I came in, I felt that same energy. Like, there's just a confidence about you, the way you hold yourself.
So, yeah, I think there's just, like, there's such a maturation, and it's really beautiful, like, amongst all three of us. And I just feel a lot of gratitude right now for.
Well, for. Mostly to the universe, believe it or not, because this was all the. This was all the universe. We all just had to surrender to the universe. And the universe brought us all together. We have. The challenges that we had were brought to us divinely, and we all rose to the occasion. And I think, yeah, I see a lot of success for each of us moving forward in, you know, Michael and I in this domain call and you in your adventure. And then Michael and I obviously have our own ventures, and I just see a lot of success for all three of us. And I think think this was, like our.
Our prep school for, like, what we're going to be, you know, the big kahuna, like, the big success that's coming for all three of us. I think this was a prep school for that. So, yeah, just a lot of gratitude. So.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: I fully agree. And that's what I was thinking. I was like, that's what I want to talk about next is, like, how so much of me as a person as. And as a business person and as an entrepreneur, the growth that came from us working together and the work we did here was, like, laying the groundwork in a school for, like, the things later on in life. And, like, I'm just so grateful for that, to be able to have done that in, like, a safe space. And, like, you know, Michael, you were in the corporate world, and it's so different over there, like, the growth style and, like, how you grow over there. Is so different than what I experienced here. And I'm so grateful that we got to experience that here, and I got to experience that here, because I wouldn't be who I am today, now doing the work I do now, had it not been for all of this. You know, like, it informed so much of what I do. And that's, you know, why I'm kind of moving on to the next step, because I was able to learn through this journey.
Pardon me. And figure that out and be like, oh, okay, this is really where the sweet spot is. This is where, you know, I belong. And I think that that came from, like.
Like, I feel like I always struggled to find clients when I was working in personal development, and I didn't know what it was. And for the longest time, I was just like, everything is hot. Like, everything will be hard in life. There's, like, you know, there's a certain degree of, like, you just got to keep working, and eventually you're gonna get there. And then I just finally, as you know, the last little while was like, okay, but when is the gonna get there gonna happen? Because I looked at you guys, and I was like, okay, they're clearly in their element because, you know, they're doing well and things are moving. And even though it's still hard, it's like a good heart. It's like, it's. It's good. Whereas mine was always just kind of not working.
And then when I made my pivot and I, you know, I did my website, I branded myself, and I moved into, like, working with entrepreneurs and tech and business, all of a sudden, that's when things started to really move easily. And that's when I went, okay. It's because I wasn't. I was, like, almost there, but I wasn't quite in the lane that I was supposed to be in.
And now making that shift is, like, the universe going, yes, like, you needed to be a part of the group. You needed to do all these things. You needed to learn all this stuff. And now that you've, like, gone through that journey, now you're ready to kind of of, you know, continue here. And that's, you know, one of. That's the big reason of why it's like, okay, I'm stepping away from the podcast and, you know, being a cheerleader on the sidelines because, you know, that helps me align more deeply to the route that I'm now going.
But I owe all of that, so much of that to this group and, like, what we've done together and what we've learned together and how we've, you know, gone through all these trials and tribulations as a group in order to figure those things out. And I'm just really grateful to have had two of the most amazing people to be able to go through that journey with, because, honest to God, going through the pandemic, I don't know how I could have done it without you guys.
Without you guys and without the community.
Like, I. I honestly have no idea how I would have been able to do that. And I want to say I think my favorite moment was all three of us meeting in Toronto finally, after years of, like, knowing each other on here and, like, actually meeting in person. I remember meeting Matt for the first time. We were walking up. I was walking up Jervis, and he was, like, almost at the corner of Jervis and Wellesley, and he was walking down a bit because we were meeting, and I think we were going over to Michael's.
[00:40:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: And so I saw him and I was like, that's what Matt looks like in real life, like, in person.
And then, like, it was just like, the biggest hug. And then I remember being like, it's like, okay, yeah, all right, this is cool. And then we went over to Michael's, and then just, like, sitting and hanging out and, like, I was like, this is kind of mind blowing, but this is amazing. And just experiencing that weekend and, like, you know, having meals together and then going out and, like, doing a little bit of partying together, it was such a different experience of you guys. I mean, like, me and Michael have had that a bit because we, you know, we live not far away from each other and, like, we go out together in Toronto, but, like, experiencing that with all three of us, it was just, like, so amazing. And I remember being like, this is so great. Like, this is such a fun time. Everybody's just having fun, like, you know, so that's definitely one of my favorite memories about this whole experience, is us being able to just, like, hang out in person.
[00:41:05] Speaker B: I would agree with that for sure. That's definitely. I think back to that. Was it a week, Matt, that you were here? Like, yeah, yeah. But I have so many memories just in that one concentrated week of you guys. Even though we've been doing this podcast for so long, like, obviously the in person has a different energy and, like, you know, feeling. Feeling your body, you know. Matt, when I hugged you the first time, same as say, what's this Callum saying? Like, I was like, I feel like I've just met you, yet I've Always known you. And it was just so. It was such a crazy good feeling.
And Callum, going back to the. What you said about the pandemic, remember when you and I, it was like quarantine. And we would go for walks. Yeah, we'd go for walks because we couldn't do anything else. So we'd go for walks through Rosedale, through the Village, and. Yeah, you. You kind of reminded me about that. You're one of the people. You're one of the people in my bubble. Back when we had the little bubbles of people we could talk to.
[00:41:54] Speaker C: You're.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: You're one of my bubble people. So it's amazing that we've come so far, and I'm looking forward to seeing Matt again. Obviously, Matt's in Calgary, but Callan, you're still nice and close, but we should definitely do something like that again where we can all meet up in person.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:11] Speaker C: Yeah, I agree.
[00:42:12] Speaker A: In the summer, when it's not snowing or wintery.
[00:42:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree.
[00:42:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I hibernate in the winter.
[00:42:18] Speaker A: Yeah, for sure. I remember. So I want to say my first impressions of meeting you guys in person is I remember, Michael, when you walked around the corner for the first time and I saw you and you saw me, and I remember being like, how is all that energy packed into him?
[00:42:34] Speaker B: He's like.
[00:42:35] Speaker A: I was like, because you just have. For me, you had such a big personality on the screen. And then when I met you in person, it's like, huh? How did they pack up all that energy inside that guy?
And then with Matt, I remember, like, hugging you. I rem being like, he's so sturdy. Like, you're just, like, so, like. Like you were just, like, so sturdy. I was like, okay. That was my first, like, in person, first real life in person impression of you guys.
[00:43:01] Speaker C: That's funny. Yeah. I remember after you. After you hugged me, you were like, you're. You're much thicker than I thought you were going to be.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:43:09] Speaker C: yeah.
[00:43:10] Speaker A: Which is good. Yeah, yeah. My head.
[00:43:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:43:14] Speaker B: And then with Caroline, I have to, like, hug you like this.
[00:43:16] Speaker A: Like, like up.
[00:43:17] Speaker B: I have to go on my tippy toes to, like, properly get to you.
[00:43:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because we all look like we're on the same level here, but people don't know is I'm kind of a giant in real life.
[00:43:25] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're kind of like that. There's a picture of us and it's
[00:43:30] Speaker A: like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's on the. It's on the website gaimanbrotherhood.com. if you want to see the picture of all three of us together. Yeah, that was at our. Our one. Our hangout that we did. All three of us here in Toronto during Pride.
[00:43:44] Speaker C: Yeah, that was the day that I met you, Kellen. Yeah, we met and then when we walked to the hangout.
[00:43:50] Speaker B: Right?
[00:43:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that is right. That is right.
Yeah. So many good memories.
Well, is there anything else we want to cover in today's episode?
[00:44:03] Speaker B: What about you, Kellen? What has been your, you know, favorite podcast episode or favorite moment?
[00:44:09] Speaker A: Oh, gosh.
Favorite podcast episode or favorite moment?
Well, favorite moment not on the podcast was meeting in person. That, like, hands down, nothing beats that. But I think specifically.
I think specifically was when all three of us were sitting on the couch and Matt gave us the gifts that he had gotten us. I think that is, like, the moment. That is my favorite moment.
Just because, like, it was just so friends hanging out on a couch, you know? And so that moment, to me, will always stick in my mind for whatever reason.
So I just. I love that podcast. God, we've done so many.
[00:44:54] Speaker B: This is episode number 127.
[00:44:57] Speaker A: Holy gramoly.
I'd. I'd have to, like, scroll through and, like, actually let me just take a quick peek and I can see.
Let me open up and see the episodes here. Okay. The podcast, I have it on. Easy Act. Okay. Episodes.
[00:45:14] Speaker C: Well, gosh, Reinventing Yourself was one of my favorites, too. Inside out and Reinventing Yourself, I think were my two favorites.
[00:45:22] Speaker A: Yep.
Oh, zero fucks. Given that I like that one because I just got to fucking let it rip.
But those are, like. Those are newer ones. I'm going to scroll all the way down and maybe go find some older ones.
[00:45:40] Speaker C: Our first episode was rejection.
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Rejection. Yeah. July 16, 2020, I believe. Yeah.
[00:45:46] Speaker C: That's crazy.
[00:45:48] Speaker A: Loneliness and belonging, I feel was one of the. Because I think that. That. I think that that and those themed episodes tend to hit a chord with a lot of people, especially during the pandemic and. And even now after the pandemic, I know that those themes that we've done along those lines, even today, like, today that I think that's still one of our most popular episodes and those things. So I think that I really like those ones because it brings our community even closer together and that we help facilitate that for them, that us being here and doing this helps those people. And that's why we read out the reviews. That's why we have people, you know, we ask people to, like, you know, send us a review or send us a message or Something so that we know because, like, thousands of you out there listen to this. Literally thousands. We just had our first week where we had over 2000 downloads in the first week of, like, a new episode's release. Like, that's huge compared to, like, where we started.
And so it's really important for us that it's like, you know, you might not message us, you might not talk to us, but we know that, like, you count on this every week and that that's still going to continue in, you know, a different capacity. But, like, Matt and Michael are still going to be here and continue that for everybody.
Yeah. And that. That the goodness and all the stuff that we bring is still going to be here.
Yeah.
[00:47:19] Speaker C: Actually, maybe we can bring voice to that before we wrap up. So.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:47:23] Speaker C: Michael and I are. We. We came together and we had a lot of excitement to wanting to create a couple episodes on very aligned and things that make us excited. And Michael can bring his expertise in and I can bring my expertise in. So we're gonna. We're gonna roll with him and I for a couple sessions and then we're gonna sit back and let the universe show us the next move. And I think we're going to attract exactly what we need. We both trust that. So.
[00:47:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:47:51] Speaker B: And as always, we will be having our special guests coming in, so that's not changing. We. We love having our special guest stars on the show. So I know for what it's worth, I've got some really exciting ones coming up in the next few months, and I'm sure Matt does too.
[00:48:05] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:48:07] Speaker A: And I'm excited to, like, listen.
I'm excited to listen and support and be like, oh, what are they talking about? Because I don't know what it is. Maybe I've not actually gone back and listened to a lot of our episodes.
I mean, I've listened to a couple of them. I've listened to more of your guys's episode episodes. Like, I've actually listened to your guys's, like, one on one episodes where you do interviews. But like, all three of us, I tend to not listen to those. So it's interesting. Now I'm probably gonna, like, start listening to all the episodes because now I'm like, oh, this is interesting. Like, I wasn't. I wasn't part of it. Let's see what's going on.
There was one thing that I wanted to say.
Oh. I wanted to say that for any listeners out there, if you want to reach out, I know that some people have mentioned that they tried to reach out on Facebook to me. But I have Facebook messages turned off. I don't. I don't get them unless you're, like, already a person who's a friend of mine on Facebook. But I keep that very, you know, private just because I have a lot of my private life on there.
If you want to reach out to do it on, like, Instagram or to use the email on my website in order to message me. If you do have something you want to say in regards to me leaving any wishes or anything like that, please use the email on my
[email protected] or on Instagram at Catch Cal, because then that way I'll actually get the messages. Because if you do it on Facebook, I'm not going to see it. It's not going to come to me. I'm not even going to know that you messaged me. And I don't want anybody out there thinking that I'm just ignoring them. I'm not. I've had that turned off this whole time because it goes. It tracks back to when we first started the group and, like, how wild the Facebook group got that I was like, oh, I'm not opening up this can of worms. So I just kind of close that down. And it's actually been a big stress relief because I remember, Matt, you experienced a lot of stuff in that regard. And so I was like, nope, I'm gonna close that door. So, yeah, so any listeners who want to reach out, you can do that.
Is there any last things you want to say?
[00:50:10] Speaker C: Guys, I want to speak to what you just said. I think it's really cool that we're now attracting more civility and in the space. And I think I'm a firm believer that what we attract is, to a certain degree, what we are. Right. So when we were. Had all this chaos in our world, we were attracting that chaos in, and I think it was unresolved shame. So we were getting a lot of people in with unresolved shame.
The three of us have done a lot of deep work on ourselves in the last three years, and now the people in the community. I believe in energy transference, and our presence alone is transformative for people. And now we're seeing a lot more cohesiveness and peace in our community.
So, yeah, it's just a testament to leadership. It's so important. Leaders have to be, like, doing the work and embodying the transformation that they're leading people towards. And I just. I'm really proud of you, too, for doing your work. And really showing up in the most vulnerable and authentic ways because, yeah, it's the most important part of leadership, in my opinion.
[00:51:08] Speaker B: Leading by example and practicing what we preach.
[00:51:11] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:51:11] Speaker B: I think we've all, we've all, we've all shown on our own journeys that we've done that.
[00:51:16] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:51:18] Speaker A: And I fully agree that the, the community is a reflection of us and a maturity as a group together and all. And so totally.
[00:51:27] Speaker C: Oh well, you will be missed, Callan. You will be missed.
[00:51:32] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.
[00:51:34] Speaker A: And this isn't, it's not like I will never return. Like, maybe I'll come back for an interview episode in the future.
[00:51:39] Speaker B: Who knows?
[00:51:40] Speaker A: Like, who knows what the future holds? Everything's open to possibilities, possibility. But at this moment in time, this is, you know, where I'm being called and it's all in goodness.
And I'm excited for what the future holds for all of us. And if you, you know, if you like this episode, give it a thumbs up on, on YouTube and subscribe. If you don't already hit the bell. There's new episodes every Thursday and I'm excited to look forward to the what episodes are coming out after this.
If you're listening on Apple or Spotify or anything like that, if you can give us a star rating, that would be really fantastic. We've getting quite a few and our ratings have been going up, which is fantastic.
And you can leave a comment. We will try and do our best to read them out at the beginning of each episode.
And we also get a lot on YouTube, so we kind of pick those ones sometimes as well. So that's it. This is kind of weird to be signing off for, at least for right now. For the last time, I just want to thank all the listeners for your love and support support over the years of not just only the game and going deeper podcast and the community, but for also me.
I've over the years received many, many good feeling messages and a lots of love. So thank you for supporting me and I'm still going to be an A member in the community, so I'll still be in there, still spreading all the joy and love and that's it for now. So I guess that's it everybody. Peace, love, rainbows, and we will catch you next time.
[00:53:11] Speaker B: Bye.
